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People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

sciencedaily.com

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Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#291

Post by mjburgess »

hollerith wrote: post #290
mjburgess wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt the victims are. Its those people wandering through parks having this fantasy of victimisation to drive their 'compassionate' impulse to police others. If you wander around the world engaged in these fantasies, and police everyone around you such, then you're creating a nightmare for people to live in. Do you imagine teenagers attacking people, and then keep them out of parks? They're vastly more dangerous th…

Do you own a pit bull by any chance?

I don't own a dog. And as I've said elsewhere, this really isnt about dogs.

It's about whether the appropriate response to rare events of danger, imagined in abstract circumstances, should be met with 'fantasy compassion' where people go around policing each other.

An unleashed dog in a park is safe as people in the park, indeed, much more so. More people are attacked by other people in parks than by dogs.

If we're going to police society to this level, it'll be a nightmare.

If there's a dangerous person in the park: call the police. Likewise if there's a dangerous dog.

I find it a certain moral sickness to go around in a fantasy that people are all dangerous, or likewise dogs are, or anything else. This is just some internal emotional licence to appoint yourself a police officer.

In the comment i replied to above: why was that woman afraid? Because of a dog? No. She reacted to another person. Another person hurt her.

People are dangerous. I guess we should have a sign 'no people in the park' -- then we can really enjoy it

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#292

Post by raffraffraff »

I'm not even sure what passes for "autism" these days. Back in the late 90s I helped out at a tiny charity that helped out family's of severely disabled kids. They would be utterly dependent on their parents for everything and needed constant supervision. Almost all were non-verbal. Due to the fact that many of them had genetic conditions, they had a bunch of health problems and also looked different to other kids their age. But I remember one kid, he was about 7, looked "normal" and had no other medical issues, but needed constant supervision and was non-verbal. I asked what was wrong with him. "He's autistic". My understanding of autism is a mix of that kid and Kim Peak (the real person behind the Rain Man movie).

Fast forward to this century. I've had full conversations with successful people, who announce that they're autistic.

Which austism is this article talking about and how exactly is it diagnosed?

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#293

Post by ddmf »

raffraffraff wrote: post #292

I'm not even sure what passes for "autism" these days. Back in the late 90s I helped out at a tiny charity that helped out family's of severely disabled kids. They would be utterly dependent on their parents for everything and needed constant supervision. Almost all were non-verbal. Due to the fact that many of them had genetic conditions, they had a bunch of health problems and also looked different to other kids th…

Kim Peak wasn't even autistic.

Have a look at the DSM or ICD diagnosis criteria

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/diagnos...

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#294

Post by mjan22640 »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #179
nathan_compton wrote: post #116

I have mild autism (not entirely politically correct to describe it that way) without intellectual impairments and I frankly see normal people as disabled.

Frankly that superiority complex may be why neurodivergent people with similar ideas about "normal" people have issues getting along with others, no offense.

NDs lack certain social instincts, that are at the same time very strong in NTs. To a ND, NTs acting under influence of these do appear to be flawed. It is an observation, not a superiority complex. One of the differences is that NDs are not hierarchical, superiority/inferiority of people is a non-category to a ND.

Edit: fixed mixed up shortcuts

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#295

Post by penjelly »

ashirviskas wrote: post #258
penjelly wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or maybe people are in a new place and processing a totally foreign environment? Maybe theyre stressed/tired from flying? Not thinking because theyre in a rush? Its not that hard to find reasons for why people might make mistakes in an airport. > another example: queueing to board the plane. other than to fit in, why on earth would I stand there and compete to spend more time in a sweaty uncomfortable seat packed wit…

>what? people are following direction, and the way the plane boards is actually important to how fast it loads, so youre messing with that because its a mild convenience to you and you consider that intelligent behaviour? What direction? The only time there were more directions than just "priority" vs "non priority" was on my flight to Korea a few years ago. Most smaller flights in Europe, sadly, do not do that.

Full service airlines board by section by direction of the gate agents pre-flight. The video explains why its important for those airlines

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#296

Post by Doxin »

raffraffraff wrote: post #292

I'm not even sure what passes for "autism" these days. Back in the late 90s I helped out at a tiny charity that helped out family's of severely disabled kids. They would be utterly dependent on their parents for everything and needed constant supervision. Almost all were non-verbal. Due to the fact that many of them had genetic conditions, they had a bunch of health problems and also looked different to other kids th…

Both autisms are the same autism. They call autism a spectrum disorder, which essentially boils down to quite wide variations in symptoms. For any of the related symptoms in the list any specific autist may have that symptom a lot, a little, or not at all.

The reason you see more "normal" for a lack of a better word people with autism these days is because we've gotten better at diagnosing the less visible issues. Someone who's non-verbal is pretty easy to spot. Someone who's verbal but doesn't show facial expressions "correctly", doesn't understand sarcasm, has a strong sense of justice, and overly detail oriented might be a lot harder to spot at a glance. Indeed most people would just mentally file such a person under "bit of an oddball".

Take me for a more concrete example. I've got autism, but most people are rather surprised when I tell them, even if I've known them for years. I tend to not tell people before they know me very well, because I find it taints their perception of me.

I'm generally fairly successful. I've got a home, a job, and a dog. On the other hand I struggle almost daily with identifying feelings I have. I'll often not even notice if I'm stressed for example, until I start getting random sore muscles because I've been tensing them all day. I'm super nervous in social situations I've not been in before. It feels like being part of a play but having never gotten the script and the audience is ready to laugh at any tiny mistake. I'll often misinterpret open questions, to the point where these days I'll often just refuse to answer without clarification. I'm quite picky with expectations, especially regarding food. I'll often talk over people without noticing. This sometimes upsets people, but if I try not to I just end up never getting a turn in conversation. I never know how long to keep eye contact. Do I look away too much? am I staring? I don't like getting touched unexpectedly. A simple touch on the elbow to get my attention is jarring to me. I'm often unable to ignore repetitive noises, especially if there's no pattern to the noise -- the clanging of the pipes the dishwasher generates is currently the bane of my existence. I try to plan everything into excruciating detail, which generally doesn't work anyways. I need to carefully pace myself to not run out of energy halfway through the day and have all the symptoms get worse for the rest of the day. Rooms with echo or reverb tire me out in a hurry. I'm frequently annoyed by people trying to "interpret" what I say instead of taking it at face value.

I could go on and on, but my point is that it's entirely possible to seem perfectly normal outwardly and yet have a lot of hidden problems. I -- and a lot of other autistic people -- have been trying to fit in with "normal" people all my life, it's hardly surprising I've gotten good at seeming normal.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#297

Post by ashirviskas »

penjelly wrote: post #295
ashirviskas wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>what? people are following direction, and the way the plane boards is actually important to how fast it loads, so youre messing with that because its a mild convenience to you and you consider that intelligent behaviour? What direction? The only time there were more directions than just "priority" vs "non priority" was on my flight to Korea a few years ago. Most smaller flights in Europe, sadly, do not do that.

Full service airlines board by section by direction of the gate agents pre-flight. The video explains why its important for those airlines

I've watched that video when it came out, but my point is that you can fly monthly between european countries without ever coming across proper boarding procedures. Don't get me wrong, it infuriates me, but this is the sad reality we live in.

Even on the flight from Helsinki to Bangkok there was only priority vs non-priority distinction, even though the tickets had different seating groups. Could have saved us all some convenience, but no, we all had to board the plane very chaotically.

Which is why I am usually the last one to go to the boarding, I can chill on comfy seat for 20-30 minutes instead of standing in chilly or boiling hot weather/boarding tunnels.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#298

Post by mjan22640 »

Name_Chawps wrote: post #191
atleastoptimal wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly that superiority complex may be why neurodivergent people with similar ideas about "normal" people have issues getting along with others, no offense.

Autistic people are often seen as arrogant because they speak honestly about their strengths (and weaknesses), whereas normal people avoid speaking honestly about their strengths unless they are arrogant.

NDs want others to perceive the most accurate picture of them.

NTs want others to perceive the best possible picture of them. That makes talking about ones strengths loaded with things like suspiction etc.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#299

Post by forinti »

wkat4242 wrote: post #140
nathan_compton wrote: post #116

I have mild autism (not entirely politically correct to describe it that way) without intellectual impairments and I frankly see normal people as disabled.

I know what you mean. I remember one time I got off the plane in Italy and I was walking with my girlfriend to customs. At one point we branched off from all the other passengers and she was like "hey we're going the wrong way, everyone is heading there". And I said nope this is the EU passengers exit, look at the sign. She couldn't believe it was right because the plane was full of others from our EU country. All th…

At the cinema everyone goes out through the door the first person went through. A line even forms while all the other doors are ignored.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#300

Post by licebmi__at__ »

vasco wrote: post #268
slim wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point of GP is "following the herd" is also a strategy that works 90% of the time (I would argue 99% of the time if there is no malicious intent to mislead involved). It's not by chance that this behaviour has been selected by nature. It is simple. It works in a lot of cases including cases where there are no signs or where you can't read the signs. And it makes for a great fallback strategy when you have…

And what I was sharing is that someone like me wouldn't consider that outcome as "works". Someone that follows the herd in this scenario is exactly the type of person that would say "what do you mean, it worked anyway?". In my mind if I'm an adult person in an airport and I missed obvious signs and just went with everyone I'd be genuinely thinking about this for days and softly beat myself up, look up the airport flo…

So you’ve never encountered a situation where going against the grain, even if for completely good reasons, fails? I know I’ve been in that place more than once.

GP was only saying that going with the herd is most of the time a more successful strategy, and even if I don’t follow it, I’m not blind to my selection bias to say it doesn’t. As he stated, it wouldn’t have been selected otherwise.

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