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Can I remove my personal data from GenAI training datasets?

knowingmachines.org

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Re: Can I remove my personal data from GenAI training datasets?

#71

Post by scrollaway »

thefz wrote: post #63
valianteffort wrote: post #21

I don't get it, you put that information on the internet, you have no expectation to privacy. But now maybe you learned a lesson, and you won't publicly share things you don't want people to see?

This is similar to saying that if girls don't want to be molested, they should not wear a mini skirt in public. One may not have been aware of the future existence of AI when writing on a public platform. Or one simply may want his blog/thoughts to be intended for human consumption and not to train the latest commercial product which will reap from his content and not share any profit.

How is it similar to that strawman?

There is no expectation of privacy in public. That is pretty much the definition. It’s not victim blaming.

Re: Can I remove my personal data from GenAI training datasets?

#72

Post by fsckboy »

thefz wrote: post #63
valianteffort wrote: post #21

I don't get it, you put that information on the internet, you have no expectation to privacy. But now maybe you learned a lesson, and you won't publicly share things you don't want people to see?

This is similar to saying that if girls don't want to be molested, they should not wear a mini skirt in public. One may not have been aware of the future existence of AI when writing on a public platform. Or one simply may want his blog/thoughts to be intended for human consumption and not to train the latest commercial product which will reap from his content and not share any profit.

> saying that if girls don't want to be molested, they should not wear a mini skirt in public

such a ridiculous example if you are trying to convince me that you care about these girls' safety as opposed to some abstract egg-headed right.

Re: Can I remove my personal data from GenAI training datasets?

#73

Post by scrollaway »

icelancer wrote: post #60
exabrial wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you put that information on the internet, you have no expectation to privacy That was the expectation until Zuckerberg came along. People were putting tons of stuff on BBSs, intranets, and other stuff 20+ years beforehand because people had the idea of "consent" back then existed: using someones information for a purpose they didn't intend was (and still is) wrong.

> That was the expectation until Zuckerberg came along. The early days of the Internet were full of "information should be free" hackers, many of whom roam this very forum in their 40s, 50s, and 60s. Well, information is free now. And this is what it looks like - consumed by LLMs. We got what we asked for.

Indeed. There was no expectation of privacy on the internet at the time and THAT is exactly why it was standard to not communicate personal information you didn’t want to share. Pseudonymity carried onto the internet until the Facebook days.

I am still firmly in the Information wants to be free camp, and I agree with you that LLMs scanning it is a logical continuation of it all.

Re: Can I remove my personal data from GenAI training datasets?

#74

Post by scrollaway »

Last5Digits wrote: post #67
bmitc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say anything remotely close to what you're implying. What a ridiculous statement. I used the word enslave and used it correctly in this context. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/enslave https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slavery a situation or practice in which people are entrapped (as by debt) and exploited ; submission to a dominating influence From Oxford Dictionary: cause (someone) to l…

Is this elementary school, where we ignore the usage and context of words and simply recite the dictionary definition? You were clearly aware of the emotional weight of the term and tried to exploit it to make your argument more impactful. Can I call my mom a slave-driver now, because she made me clean my room when I was a child? I clearly had no choice but to submit to her demands, since I relied on her for food and…

OP used the word correctly. It doesn’t HAVE to mean specifically “it’s like being a North American slave in that exact period of history” or something.

define:enslaving (2): cause (someone) to lose their freedom of choice or action.

Re: Can I remove my personal data from GenAI training datasets?

#75

Post by visarga »

RandomLensman wrote: post #65
visarga wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyrights protect the copying of the original text, but models take gradients. Are gradients protected as well? Even when data is copyrighted it still has legitimate value for training, pure ideas don't get copyright protection, only expression.

Can the model use the text without making a copy (in memory) to process it?

technical copies are different, there are exemptions

Re: Can I remove my personal data from GenAI training datasets?

#76

Post by visarga »

RandomLensman wrote: post #69
PeterStuer wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can a human?

Not relevant. What humans do isn't necessarily viewed the same way as what machines do.

Machines need to be prompted with the exact prefix to be able to retrieve any copyrighted fragment, and that doesn't work most of the times. So the intent for copyright circumvention is in the prompt. Temperature settings also matter.

Re: Can I remove my personal data from GenAI training datasets?

#77

Post by ClumsyPilot »

valianteffort wrote: post #21

I don't get it, you put that information on the internet, you have no expectation to privacy. But now maybe you learned a lesson, and you won't publicly share things you don't want people to see?

> you put that information on the internet, you have no expectation to privacy.

But if Disney puts information on the internet, and you misuse it, lawyers will chase you to the ends of the earth.

We both have same right and copyright, but somehow it's one rule for them and another rule for me.

Re: Can I remove my personal data from GenAI training datasets?

#78

Post by RandomLensman »

visarga wrote: post #76
RandomLensman wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not relevant. What humans do isn't necessarily viewed the same way as what machines do.

Machines need to be prompted with the exact prefix to be able to retrieve any copyrighted fragment, and that doesn't work most of the times. So the intent for copyright circumvention is in the prompt. Temperature settings also matter.

That could be besides the point as for the training the machines will create a copy in their memory - or is that no longer the case?

Re: Can I remove my personal data from GenAI training datasets?

#79

Post by Last5Digits »

scrollaway wrote: post #74
Last5Digits wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this elementary school, where we ignore the usage and context of words and simply recite the dictionary definition? You were clearly aware of the emotional weight of the term and tried to exploit it to make your argument more impactful. Can I call my mom a slave-driver now, because she made me clean my room when I was a child? I clearly had no choice but to submit to her demands, since I relied on her for food and…

OP used the word correctly. It doesn’t HAVE to mean specifically “it’s like being a North American slave in that exact period of history” or something. define:enslaving (2): cause (someone) to lose their freedom of choice or action.

When people hear slavery, they think of harsh, forced physical labor under inhumane conditions. Whether you think of American slavery, African slavery or Roman slavery, the common factor is clear.

I'm from Germany, I'm decidedly not US-centric, but everyone I know would be appalled if someone described any facet of their western life using that word, because they'd be implicitly reducing the impact said word has when it is used to describe the immense suffering of those people experiencing it in its (sadly still present) worst form.

Re: Can I remove my personal data from GenAI training datasets?

#80

Post by greysphere »

valianteffort wrote: post #21

I don't get it, you put that information on the internet, you have no expectation to privacy. But now maybe you learned a lesson, and you won't publicly share things you don't want people to see?

More often than not it's other people putting the information on the internet. Celebrities and politicians already have had to deal with this but at least had some compensation/resources to deal with it. We need some protections or else existing in public spaces will become only viable for the rich. For everyone else you'll be 'caught' picking your nose in the sidewalk and then be fired from your restaurant job or whatever. Not to mention the ramifications for public protest.
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