Ivan Illich’s radical critique of modern certitudes (2021)

Post by hudon » Mon, Oct 30, 2023, 6:33 PM UTC

saghm wrote: post #119

slibhb wrote: post #75

Criticizing modern medicine makes a lot of sense if you're a devout Catholic because the afterlife tempers the sadness of death. For non-believers, though, earthly life is all there is, so reducing suffering, disease, and poverty are much more pressing goals -- goals that might be worth a little alienation. I would emphasize choice: people can (and do) embrace alternative ways of life, from the Amish to kibbutzim. Si…

> Criticizing modern medicine makes a lot of sense if you're a devout Catholic because the afterlife tempers the sadness of death > Similarly, we don't have to drag out our final years: we're free to opt out of medical treatments OTOH, Catholicism also is strongly against euthanasia, which is arguably at odds with the sentiment of not having to drag out final years. I think there's plenty of room for a philosophy to…

Post by jonjacky » Mon, Oct 30, 2023, 6:46 PM UTC

Post by bpiche » Mon, Oct 30, 2023, 7:11 PM UTC

hypertexthero wrote: post #122

wrycoder wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for taking the time and effort to produce these summaries. The comments on HN are such a useful resource, often exceeding the value of the cited sources!

Indeed. Thank you. HN is a bit like the Whole Earth Catalogue’s “Access to Tools” section. Curated, [gravity-powered][1] links are the Access to Tools article. Ranked comments are the books related to the article displayed on the sidebar. [1]: https://cs229.stanford.edu/proj2011/Learning_to_identify.pdf

Post by ses1984 » Mon, Oct 30, 2023, 7:19 PM UTC

telmo wrote: post #107

ses1984 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I would contest the notion that a lack of religiosity must magnify discontent with death It’s the other way around. Lack of religiosity is the default state and with it you get the default discontent with death, but a religion with an afterlife could reduce discontent with death.

> Lack of religiosity is the default state On the contrary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_irreligio... > and with it you get the default discontent with death That is a huge assumption. There is a huge variety of ways in which societies, cultures and individuals relate and have related with death.

Post by Slava_Propanei » Mon, Oct 30, 2023, 7:29 PM UTC

mdgrech23 wrote: post #104

cainxinth wrote: post #97

> *But he was blistering in his critique of our medical systems oriented toward postponing the end as long as possible. “We now see that a majority of these medical achievements are deceptive misnomers, actually prolonging the suffering of madmen, cripples, old fools and monsters,” he wrote.* That one has certainly proved prescient. Medical science has gotten frighteningly good at prolonging life even in cases when i…

Here in the US and many other first world countries the population is getting very old. We'll need to bring in younger people who look different to keep the average age down. This obviously has all sorts of side effects. The other problem is the wealth inequality it creates. Wealth compounds with time plus the older generation grew up in a boom period. Add in the fact that they were able to buy cheap housing which ha…