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Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

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Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#41

Post by esrauch »

satellites wrote: post #15

“A survey from YouGov found that Americans in the highest income category were by far the most supportive of defunding the police.” “By far” means “10% more” in the actual graph the author cites, which comes from an online poll that had 1500 respondents. I’m no statistician but that seems like a small difference and small sample size to be the key piece of “data” here. This article follows most tropes of behavioral s…

Also notably the rural/urban divide is even wider, so even taking the data at face value it appears that it also be justified that high earners are more likely to be in urban areas, and that high-earner rural residents are more likely to spend time in urban areas, and that people more exposed to multiculturalism are more likely to espouse concern with policing.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#42

Post by mrangle »

tech_ken wrote: post #29
xyzelement wrote: post #18

[flagged]

I know lots of people who are quite poor and are also very invested in the human rights of Palestinians. I know lots of people who are quite poor and very interested in reining in police violence. Your opinions and experiences aren't universal.

They aren't speaking about protest in the interest of the human rights of Palestinians.

See the fact that protestors aren't suggesting that Hamas give themselves up as a means of protecting the lives of their Palestinian human shields.

Protestors want October 7th and no consequences, or limited consequences on the terms of those who would see the perpetrators keep power. Specifically, to be able to slaughter masses of civilians and then run behind their human shields with impunity and forever.

Human shields that should move as far South as possible. Human shields who widely support Hamas and their actions.

Hamas has the ability to end all of this in this very hour, should they care enough about the Palestinians. They only need to give up.

Protestors have the ability to demand that Hamas end this conflict in this very hour, should they actually first care about Palestinians and not the continuity of War.

All Hamas has to do is give themselves up. Or at least move camp to an area that is away from the civilians.

Hamas won't, and neither will their "pro-Palestinian" supporters demand it.

Which is a primary problem with ostensible "pro-Palestinian protest" in the context of the current conflict.

Terrorists can't slaughter 1300+ civilians, declaring civilians combatants, and then credibly declare the deaths of their specific human shields to be a human rights issue that is the responsibility of their enemies. Unless they are in the process of giving up. The same paradigm applies to the nature of their support.

The deaths of Palestinians are a Human rights issue. But the cause and responsibility is on Hamas and its support. They can give up in this very hour. Or simply move camp. Anything else is an ongoing illustration of their deceit that doesn't care an ounce for Palestinian Life.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#43

Post by etrautmann »

leereeves wrote: post #27
chancemehmu wrote: post #6

Reminds me of one of my favourite quotes by Huxley: "If you’re to do anything reasonable in this world, you must have a class of people who are secure, safe from public opinion, safe from poverty, leisured, not compelled to waste their time in the imbecile routines that go by the name of Honest Work. You must have a class of which the members can think and, within the obvious limits, do what they please. You must hav…

It sounds like you're talking about an aristocracy, and the quote even uses that word, so I wonder: do you think the aristocracy is responsible for most of the progress in the world? I'd argue rather that, historically, progress has generally involved removing or disempowering the aristocracy.

not the OP but presumably it depends whether you're referring to social progress, art, technology, etc.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#44

Post by tech_ken »

hooverd wrote: post #34
tech_ken wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I was being oblique to signal some snark. You're sort of hitting my point directly: "luxury beliefs" are just whatever you personally believe to be (a) wrongly held and (b) limited to only the aristocracy (ie. not the opinion of "real Americans"). But concretely demonstrating both is kind of difficult and largely relies on your own subjective experience. It's a political cudgel, not a proper tool of inquiry.

Wild how the Real America always ends up being exurban jet-ski dealers.

A Jeffersonian Democracy of yeoman jet-ski dealers

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#46

Post by anon291 »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #25
xyzelement wrote: post #18

[flagged]

Hey could you show me an example or two of a pro-hamas rally that has happened on a college campus recently? I've been going to pro-palestine rallies because they're experiencing a genocide funded and supplied by my tax money, so I kind of consider protesting against it a right and obligation of mine. Haven't seen much mention of hamas at them though but maybe I'm not at the right ones. You could also stand to interr…

> You could also stand to interrogate a little more the connection between poverty in "the hood" and the global struggle against colonialism. American black people and palestinians have a long history of mutual solidarity. Aren't you curious about why?

Honestly for me... no. My parents grew up in poverty in a British colony, and they're extremely well off and their children more so. It gave us a lot of advantages. If they grew up here in the United States as a colonized people, they would have had even more advantages, and if I'm being honest, my entire family looks at the black community with confusion as to why they don't take advantage of the fact they're born in America, which puts them lightyears ahead of my parent's upbringing and poverty.

My mom ended her career by a desire to give back and taught in inner city public schools. Honestly, that was enlightening and explained a lot of why kids aren't doing well. Although both my parents and those kids grew up / are growing up poor. My grandparents wouldn't have tolerated what my mom found in the schools. At the end of the day culture matters.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#47

Post by hooverd »

logseman wrote: post #9

Given that working class rubes like myself who finished college in a place my man can't even find in a map are somehow able to know what “cultural appropriation” or “gendered” or “heteronormative” mean, and do that by the same means as everyone else (reading about it) I'm going to presume that the good man has a very peculiar understanding of what "elite" means.

Indeed, I studied in the engineering and not the gender department (we barely had liberal arts IMO), and I too learned how to read. Maybe the cultural elite, like starbucks baristas and people who work in HR.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#48

Post by ghostpepper »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #25
xyzelement wrote: post #18

[flagged]

Hey could you show me an example or two of a pro-hamas rally that has happened on a college campus recently? I've been going to pro-palestine rallies because they're experiencing a genocide funded and supplied by my tax money, so I kind of consider protesting against it a right and obligation of mine. Haven't seen much mention of hamas at them though but maybe I'm not at the right ones. You could also stand to interr…

I don't think the OP meant that the rallies were explicitly to support Hamas vs Palestine, but more that there is a general sentiment that the attack on Oct 7th was justified.

Some context https://archive.ph/DzIup

Some more extreme examples https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/support-hamas-terror-anti...

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#49

Post by michaelt »

leereeves wrote: post #27
chancemehmu wrote: post #6

Reminds me of one of my favourite quotes by Huxley: "If you’re to do anything reasonable in this world, you must have a class of people who are secure, safe from public opinion, safe from poverty, leisured, not compelled to waste their time in the imbecile routines that go by the name of Honest Work. You must have a class of which the members can think and, within the obvious limits, do what they please. You must hav…

It sounds like you're talking about an aristocracy, and the quote even uses that word, so I wonder: do you think the aristocracy is responsible for most of the progress in the world? I'd argue rather that, historically, progress has generally involved removing or disempowering the aristocracy.

Huxley being a famous author of dystopian and satirical fiction, that might be a quote from a fictional bad guy or idiot written by Huxley.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#50

Post by tech_ken »

mrangle wrote: post #42
tech_ken wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know lots of people who are quite poor and are also very invested in the human rights of Palestinians. I know lots of people who are quite poor and very interested in reining in police violence. Your opinions and experiences aren't universal.

They aren't speaking about protest in the interest of the human rights of Palestinians. See the fact that protestors aren't suggesting that Hamas give themselves up as a means of protecting the lives of their Palestinian human shields. Protestors want October 7th and no consequences, or limited consequences on the terms of those who would see the perpetrators keep power. Specifically, to be able to slaughter masses o…

Not all protests exist to further concrete political proposals (ex. suggestions to Hamas). Expressions of mass grief, community solidarity, and elevation of an issue which harms your neighbors are all important outcomes for people meeting en masse. You're welcome to impute whatever motives you want onto people you disagree with, but that doesn't mean you actually understand.
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