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How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

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Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#141
What are all those transistors doing?

I've heard the cache is the biggest part. Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A17, the A17 has 72MB of cache. Cache is typically SRAM. Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_random-access_memory, a single bit of SRAM typically uses 6 transistors, but it could be anywhere from 4 to 10. So that's between 2.3B and 5.7B transistors for the cache.

That leaves about 1B transistors for each of the 12 cores (6 CPU + 6 GPU). The instruction set is a few hundred instructions. Surely it doesn't take millions of transistors to implement each instruction. Other than the cache, which parts of the processor need millions of transistors?

Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, to know what past change would've made today much better.

I do wish that people who feel the need to dispute what I've said in this thread would more reliably address themselves to things I have said, rather than to claims I've not even approached making.

If you rely on implication to make your point, you should mentally underwrite the risk of being frustrated at people who read what you wrote, rather than read your mind :-)

Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#143
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You defined the limitation as "looking after the people on earth first," which has basically no meaning, so no, I would not say that you adequately defined those constraints in your first comment. > How on Earth do you support the claim that one deliberately self-imposed limit on human progress can't be compared with another? You're being obtuse. There's a much more clearly defined intersection of human ethics when i…

> which has basically no meaning I don't think it has less meaning than the idea that the most sere and hostile environment for our species that we've yet been able to access - the deadliest imaginable desert, accessible only at vast effort and expense - has for our taking the boundless cornucopia of riches that space maximalists constantly promise, and with no more support than you complain I offer. Meanwhile you bl…

> I don't think it has less meaning than the idea that the most sere and hostile environment for our species that we've yet been able to access - the deadliest imaginable desert, accessible only at vast effort and expense - has for our taking the boundless cornucopia of riches that space maximalists constantly promise, and with no more support than you complain I offer.

We've already benefited greatly from just the process of trying to get there. Even if there is no "riches" to be had in terms of extracting resources from alien planets, we still gain from our endeavors. This can be indirectly through technological advancements made in service to that mission (which we've seen plenty of already), or it can simply be in the pursuit of knowledge in the understanding of our universe.

> Meanwhile you blithely argue that some significant fraction of a trillion dollars, available in this happy counterfactual from what had been the war department's budget, should be devoted to this and nothing else, with no thought to the opportunity cost - and demand I justify myself in arguing we should better do otherwise!

Why do you assume that there is not thought to the opportunity cost? It's quite clear that we have different priorities on how humanity should allocate its resources but to say that it's not a consideration is just crass. The amount of human productivity we dedicate towards space exploration is a remarkably small percent of what's available, and a lot of that is driven by individual's interest in it.

The space program's budget is minuscale compared to what we spend elsewhere, maybe around 5% of a trillion dollars. That's a significant amount of money, but you seem to think that could be better spent on... what, exactly? Let's say we reallocate that budget to social security. That'd be adding less than 4% to its budget, which is already over a trillion dollars. Or the combined spend of medicaid and medicare, in which case it would be less than 3%.

> That opportunity cost would be measured in human lives, consigned to neglectful death in the service of your cause

A lot of things have indirect consequences, positive and negative. Many things that have dramatically improved the livelihoods of humanity have come at a great cost.

> but whether by neglect or murder, dead is dead. You'd be far from the first so to act; history is replete with examples, even ignoring the one we live among now. Such people are sometimes called to account. What would you say if you were?

The advancements made by curious people has made the world less impoverished and less "dead." Even if 100% of human productivity was allocated towards protecting human life, people will still die. That is life. At what point in your hypothetical world where you got to make these policies would it be acceptable for humanity to start exploring space again? When humans stop dying?

Humanity's driven by curious people willing to explore well beyond what seems rational to most people, not myopic luddites who would eschew entire avenues of exploration simply because they can't understand the utility in it.

Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#144

It’s pretty frustrating having a locked supercomputer in your pocket. I just want to play some emulated games, PC games from the 90s, host a desktop experience from my phone, etc..

Couldn't you run Windows 95 or 98 on DOSBox on your phone just for fun? (never tried myself, maybe there is something better than DOSBox for that)

Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#145
post #48

I've often struggled to really "grok" how complex chips are. They all kinda look the same. I write software, so I know how complex that is, but like the device itself -- it's this little black box. What's the difference between one little black box and another? Most people don't even get that far; they think the computer is the screen that lights up. I've been reading datasheets a lot at work. The datasheet for an ST…

The Intel® 64 and IA-32 Architectures Software Developer’s Manual Combined Volumes: 1, 2A, 2B, 2C, 2D, 3A, 3B, 3C, 3D, and 4 has over 5000 pages! [0] https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/developer/articles/t...

I'm out of date by a couple of years, but the last I knew, the ARM Architecture Reference Manual (amusingly, also called the ARM ARM) is around 8000 pages. Though, it carries similar corpus from the ARMv7 manual, now bottled as AArch32.

Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#146
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we haven't been back in 50 years, despite all the incredible technology improvements. The Apollo guidance computers had "several tens of thousands of transistors"[0], we now have 19 billion in our pocket! 0: https://www.aei.org/technology-and-innovation/apollo-11-mank... .

Putting humans on the moon in the first place was mostly just grandstanding. Manned space exploration in general is mostly just entertainment. I'm glad humanity hasn't continued wasting resources on that particular endeavor. Unmanned probes do good work for science. (Though even there I am not sure about the bang-for-the-buck compared to other alternatives.) Have a look at '20 Breakthroughs from 20 Years of Science a…

Putting humans on the moon in the first place was mostly just grandstanding. Manned space exploration in general is mostly just entertainment.

Indeed, and I believe refusing to acknowledge that fact is actively harming not just spaceflight but manned spaceflight. We're spending tens of billions of dollars trying to set up for some bullshit useless moon base when we could be setting boots on Mars just to prove we can. If we're gonna waste money let's waste it pushing the boundaries.

Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#147
post #48

I've often struggled to really "grok" how complex chips are. They all kinda look the same. I write software, so I know how complex that is, but like the device itself -- it's this little black box. What's the difference between one little black box and another? Most people don't even get that far; they think the computer is the screen that lights up. I've been reading datasheets a lot at work. The datasheet for an ST…

> A billion is a tough number to understand

I love using the money analogy for this:

"If you earned $1 every single second, that's $60 per minute, $3,600 per hour, $86,400 per day. More than most people make in a year!

Assuming no tax or expenditure whatsoever, it would take only 11 days to become a millionaire at that salary.

It would take over 31 _years_ to become a billionaire.

And that's only a mere $1 billion, some people are worth _hundreds_ of billions."

Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#148
post #3

I consider myself very lucky to be born in this age of civilization where technology increases at such incredible pace. Playing games on an atari in my childhood, then sega master system, nintendo, snes, pc games, the first 3d acceleration consumer cards, all the way to having a supercomputer in my pocket. What a time to be alive.

I think we're unlucky. I think the next generation or a couple generations down the line they will figure out biological immortality. If you're immortal the sum total of things you will see in your lifetime will dwarf the experience you're having now.

And what will we do with immortality? Our organs will continue to deteriorate, especially the brain. Many older people are already quite gullible and easy to feed propaganda to, being a favored target to politicians, let alone someone 90+.

Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#149
post #48

I've often struggled to really "grok" how complex chips are. They all kinda look the same. I write software, so I know how complex that is, but like the device itself -- it's this little black box. What's the difference between one little black box and another? Most people don't even get that far; they think the computer is the screen that lights up. I've been reading datasheets a lot at work. The datasheet for an ST…

The Intel® 64 and IA-32 Architectures Software Developer’s Manual Combined Volumes: 1, 2A, 2B, 2C, 2D, 3A, 3B, 3C, 3D, and 4 has over 5000 pages! [0] https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/developer/articles/t...

Some people might be wondering "huh, why number them in this weird way?!"

It's because they were originally 3 volumes. volume 2 is the ASM reference, 3 is the "how to do things" reference (System programming guide). Volume 1 is more of a general reference so maybe that's why it didn't grow so much.

Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some level, I think this is orthogonal to technological progress. One possible way of getting at this is to ask if people were more ‘happy’ when there wasn’t this level of tech available - and I’m not sure the answer is yes - I mean, there’s the mythos of ‘a simple life’ and ‘noble savages’, but from what I’ve read of life even a 100 years back - I would surmise folks were as unhappy / miserable then too - but lik…

Maybe happy isn’t the right word, but I think it’s pretty clear people were more content and felt a sense of purpose. Social media has made things worse, but it’s really the loss of community and religion that has led to the crisis of loneliness and depression among todays people.

As opposed to living with a spouse that abused them/who they were not in love with, without a way to divorce. Or a huge percentage of people having to experience losing their children?

It was simply not spoken about, people either poisoned their husband if it got that bad, or lived a sad life in silence.

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