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Apple's Blue Ocean

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Re: Apple's Blue Ocean

#131

Post by mdekkers »

graphe wrote: post #125
ed_mercer wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any source for said studies? As an engineer I often find my current 2 external monitors limiting and wish I had four.

NYT in 2014, (personal experience too). https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/20/technology/personaltech/s... this advocates for one monitor https://hackernoon.com/why-i-stopped-using-multiple-monitors... the tl;dr is that mutiple screens mean more distractions, and some tasks are better with 2 monitors but the studies don't indicate it's universal.

Come on, those are not “studies” - they are just the opinions of some random people, and they carry no more or less weight than, for example, my opinion, which is “you can pry my 4 x 27” screens out of my cold, dead, hands.”

The NYTimes article is actually explicit about that:

> Unlike monitor makers with their multidisplay studies, I have no research proving you’ll find as much benefit from a single monitor as I did.

In other words “there are actual studies proving multimonitor setups enhance productivity, but Big Screen(tm) paid for them so they must be wrong” which has no basis in science at all.

Also:

> “Two monitors are a double-edged sword,” said Gloria Mark, a professor who studies workplace distractions at the University of California, Irvine. Ms. Mark hasn’t specifically researched how second monitors might affect focus, and when she recently had a chance to work at a two-monitor machine, she felt that it did make some of her tasks easier. “But most people have their email up on the second screen, and of course, when anything comes in, it’s a great source of distraction,” she said.

So the only actual scientist in all of this actually said “hey, this is making me more productive, unless I fill the screens with distractions”

The tl;dr is that people need to set up their workspace to enhance their flow and focus, and reduce distraction to be productive. The amount of screens is about as relevant to that as the weather outside. (“Hey, the sun is shining and the birds are singing, it is a beautiful day outside, let’s go out!”). As per your own conclusion (“the studies don’t indicate it’s universal” - setting aside the fact that there _are_ no studies) It is not universal.

Trying to whitewash Apple’s lack of DP Daisychaining support as “You don’t need this anyway, Apple simply cares about your productivity!” Is silly.

Re: Apple's Blue Ocean

#132

Post by windowsrookie »

Thorrez wrote: post #41
ChuckMcM wrote: post #24

The short version is: "Wouldn't it be disruptive if Apple went back to replaceable batteries?" but the author stopped short of where that leads. One of the things that doable "now" that wasn't doable "then" is wireless charging. I love that I can put my phone on a pad next to the bed at night and it charges, pick it up and there is no trailing wire to unplug, put it down and there is no wire to find and plug in. This…

You'd still need some in-device battery to keep the phone from fully powering off every time you change the outside battery. I think people want their phones to not have to fully power off all the time.

Interestingly Apple's old PowerBooks had this. They had a very small internal lithium rechargeable battery. So you could close the lid(making the PowerBook go to sleep). Then you could swap the main battery without having to shut down the laptop. It could power itself off the internal battery (in sleep mode) for a few minutes.

Re: Apple's Blue Ocean

#133

Post by graphe »

nl wrote: post #128
graphe wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYT in 2014, (personal experience too). https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/20/technology/personaltech/s... this advocates for one monitor https://hackernoon.com/why-i-stopped-using-multiple-monitors... the tl;dr is that mutiple screens mean more distractions, and some tasks are better with 2 monitors but the studies don't indicate it's universal.

These aren't studies, just anecdotes, and the actual study quoted in the NYT shows the opposite: > One study commissioned by NEC and conducted by researchers at the University of Utah showed that people using a dual-display machine to do a text-editing task were 44 percent more productive than those who used a single monitor. I think it's fair to say that any research from 2014 isn't the most relevant now. Both scree…

Realistically where would you position these monitors? Ergonomically there aren't many great solutions for any extended use especially once you go up to mutiple large monitors. Tilt your head in those directions and see how long you maintain them comfortably. If you think modern notifications are less distracting I'll respectfully disagree.

Re: Apple's Blue Ocean

#134

Post by esperent »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #24

The short version is: "Wouldn't it be disruptive if Apple went back to replaceable batteries?" but the author stopped short of where that leads. One of the things that doable "now" that wasn't doable "then" is wireless charging. I love that I can put my phone on a pad next to the bed at night and it charges, pick it up and there is no trailing wire to unplug, put it down and there is no wire to find and plug in. This…

Wireless charging wastes a lot of energy. I'm not sure of the exact figures but I recall around 50%. Not a huge deal, on a personal level, for a plugged in charger (although if everyone in the world starts doing this it'll be more of a problem).

However wireless charging from a battery pack is not ideal because the battery will have to be bigger. I already feel my phone is too big to be comfortable in my pocket, and I know it's even more of an issue for smaller people/women's clothing with tiny pockets.

It's an interesting idea though.

Re: Apple's Blue Ocean

#135

Post by graphe »

mdekkers wrote: post #131
graphe wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYT in 2014, (personal experience too). https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/20/technology/personaltech/s... this advocates for one monitor https://hackernoon.com/why-i-stopped-using-multiple-monitors... the tl;dr is that mutiple screens mean more distractions, and some tasks are better with 2 monitors but the studies don't indicate it's universal.

Come on, those are not “studies” - they are just the opinions of some random people, and they carry no more or less weight than, for example, my opinion, which is “you can pry my 4 x 27” screens out of my cold, dead, hands.” The NYTimes article is actually explicit about that: > Unlike monitor makers with their multidisplay studies, I have no research proving you’ll find as much benefit from a single monitor as I did…

My point was that Apple probably don't care to cater to these use cases, and see them as niche. I know 0 people who use more than two monitors on any OS.

Re: Apple's Blue Ocean

#136

Post by mdekkers »

graphe wrote: post #135
mdekkers wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, those are not “studies” - they are just the opinions of some random people, and they carry no more or less weight than, for example, my opinion, which is “you can pry my 4 x 27” screens out of my cold, dead, hands.” The NYTimes article is actually explicit about that: > Unlike monitor makers with their multidisplay studies, I have no research proving you’ll find as much benefit from a single monitor as I did…

My point was that Apple probably don't care to cater to these use cases, and see them as niche. I know 0 people who use more than two monitors on any OS.

> I know 0 people who use more than two monitors on any OS.

Three in this thread alone, and shifting the goalposts from “studies show it is bad” to “I don’t know anyone with multiple monitors” or “It is tiring to move your head around all the time” indicate you are not debating this in good faith, so I am done with this chat.

Have a great day!

Re: Apple's Blue Ocean

#137

Post by klohto »

graphe wrote: post #133
nl wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These aren't studies, just anecdotes, and the actual study quoted in the NYT shows the opposite: > One study commissioned by NEC and conducted by researchers at the University of Utah showed that people using a dual-display machine to do a text-editing task were 44 percent more productive than those who used a single monitor. I think it's fair to say that any research from 2014 isn't the most relevant now. Both scree…

Realistically where would you position these monitors? Ergonomically there aren't many great solutions for any extended use especially once you go up to mutiple large monitors. Tilt your head in those directions and see how long you maintain them comfortably. If you think modern notifications are less distracting I'll respectfully disagree.

Respectfully disagree all you want but don’t come here claiming studies that don’t exist.

Re: Apple's Blue Ocean

#138

Post by brailsafe »

graphe wrote: post #108
ttfkam wrote: post #77

Two things I've been waiting on for years: • MST (DisplayPort daisy chaining) in MacOS. The hardware has supported it for over a decade. The OS is the weak link here. It's the difference between spending $75-$300 for a dock in addition to the cables and just connecting the monitors together along with a single cable to the first monitor. • Non-soldered storage. Seriously. Storage is the most likely component to fail.…

With a large 4K screen, I'm not seeing any benefit for MST, and studies have shown it decreases productivity after 2 screens. The other problems are simply fixed with using iCloud and treating your laptop as a disposable, which many laptops have been designed as. If you use the MacBook add intended and invest in apple care it's unbeatable.

iCloud is simply not a replacement for onboard storage

Re: Apple's Blue Ocean

#139

Post by punkybr3wster »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #38
silisili wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty close to how power tools work, minus the wireless charging of course. My first concern would be warmth, my phone always warms up when wireless charging. Doing something CPU intensive would probably get the device blazing. My second concern would be size - is the total package going to get a lot bigger here? If we forgo the pocket and just use magnets at each corner maybe it gets slimmer, but can it be a…

There is a tradeoff here which might mislead. That is that when you're wirelessly recharging a battery "good" is defined by "charges in a short time" which means a lot of current and thus a lot of heat. When operating a device "good" is defined by "runs a long time" which means minimal current and thus little heat. So before we could dismiss the idea, we would really need to run the experiment of "running" via wirele…

Moderate super capacitor for interstitial periods?

Re: Apple's Blue Ocean

#140

Post by diffeomorphism »

Grustaf wrote: post #47

Of all the things I've ever wanted to be different on my macbook, removable batteries have never been one of them. Now when battery life exceeds a (long) working day, why on earth would anyone want this? The very few times you will be away from a wall socket for more than 12 hours, you can just bring a power bank.

You are confusing removable=repairable and hotswap. The latter indeed is "who cares", the former is important.
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