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The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

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Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#421

Post by dragonwriter »

hunta2097 wrote: post #418
invalidname wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > I wouldn't count on anything coming from the circle of Netanyahu. > It's not about whether I trust them or not. It's that everyone is following the same playbook. Every teenager shot on the street is a militant; every house that is flattened was used by terrorists; everyone who has any criticism whatsoever is an antisemite. I was specifically indicating that my information came from a reputable paper. Not from an…

As an atheist, it seems like there is plenty of fanaticism on both sides. Its impossible to "pick a side" in this conflict, there are good people and a*holes in both countries.

> Its impossible to "pick a side" in this conflict, there are good people and a*holes in both countries.

And, on both sides, its the a*holes (a mild term for people who have engineered decades of war crimes and/or crimes against humanity, including waging war against or actively using inflammatory language to incite the murder of less extreme voices on, nominally, the same side for being less disinclined toward peace) running the war machine and state or state-like apparatus while the good people are trying not to get killed.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#422

Post by hackerlight »

ChumpGPT wrote: post #236

I wonder what is the tipping point for the Arab world. What is the magic number, 10k,20k,100k dead. Does it get to a point where Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon even Jordan, SA, etc start to say enough is enough. This could turn into a pretty big war, dragging in all kinds of countries. If they end up destroying all of Gaza and killing 50k and no one does anything then the Palestinians should understand they have b…

> Does it get to a point where Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon even Jordan, SA, etc start to say enough is enough.

They'll do nothing -- because they can't -- and then get overthrown by hardline Islamists. West Bank, Jordan, Egypt, who knows. They'll then become yet another security risk for Israel instead of a potential ally.

One of the many possible unintended consequences of an invasion that Israel is failing to consider in its post-9/11-esque emotional fervor.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#423

Post by p3rls »

C6JEsQeQa5fCjE wrote: post #388
orionsbelt wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the U.S. entering WW2 after Pearl Harbor just systematic barbarism in retribution?

Honest question — how else would you describe dropping a nuclear bomb each on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, cities full of civilians, causing "between 129,000 and 226,000" deaths (source: Wikipedia)? Those were not military targets.

Meanwhile Japan was killing that amount of Chinese civilians a week through only sheer willpower -- very kawaii.

How many Chinese victims and American servicemen (mostly conscripts) were you willing to sacrifice on this altar of stupidity/hindsight?

Not to even mention the fact MORE JAPANESE themselves would have died without the bombs being dropped and I really begin to question not just the morals of the OP but your intelligence as well. Get off YouTube and read some David Glantz if you want to learn what WW2 was really like.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#425

Post by hypefi »

victorbjorklund wrote: post #414
teleforce wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that some people easily believe in Israel propaganda without digging the actual reasons, and how can the people know the actual reasons when the facts are all buried together with the rubbles of communication infrastructure and the main offices of reporting news agencies. It is part of international laws and basic human rights that during the war you cannot demolish communication infrastructure, churches, mo…

It is 100% legal to bomb targets that have dual use (both civilian and military). That is why it is 100% legal for Ukraine to bomb the kerch bridge. It is a bridge used by both civilians and military.

Are you kidding me? are you comparing a bridge with a hospital full of people, doctors and patients

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#426

Post by hypefi »

snird wrote: post #393
bluish29 wrote: post #7

Someday, people in the western countries will mourn the lives lost and wish they could help in time. Except this is the time. Not after the fact and a few remains. This is an occurring theme.

[flagged]

No, it is not okay for Israel to steal land, oppress and kill people with impunity

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#427

Post by peteradio »

hackerlight wrote: post #405
dlubarov wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you suggest Israel do instead, given the ongoing threat Hamas poses?

Build an impenetrable DMZ, keep improving missile defence systems, continue forming alliances with neighboring Arab states, stop settlement expansion in West bank, crack down on settler violence, expel right-wing zealots from positions of power, iterate for 20-60 years, let the next generation figure it out. Get hostages out as a condition of a ceasefire agreement. Things were looking optimistic during the Oslo talks…

So you want the right-wing zealots in power to eject themselves? Or you expect a ground swell of support for left candidates who would tend to favor making peace with an enemy who just attacked you? Best case is that Hamas is completely routed (who knows) and Bibi takes all the flak for the war crimes and what have you. What happens if Israel does what you say but are still suffering attacks? How much antisemitism exists there?

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#428

Post by mping »

invalidname wrote: post #419
hunta2097 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an atheist, it seems like there is plenty of fanaticism on both sides. Its impossible to "pick a side" in this conflict, there are good people and a*holes in both countries.

I'm an atheist too. That is a false equivalency. Guess which country is the 4th or 5th most secular country in the world... It might surprise you: Israel. Yep. That's thanks to the "Jews" who are jews in creed, not religion. Israel has its fanatics for sure and they gained more power in the last election. But it isn't controlled by its fanatics by any stretch of the imagination.

Don't have a horse in the race. Isn't Israeli constitution specifically about the Jewish people, as a ethnic, religious group? I read it discriminates against interfaith marriages, etc

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#429

Post by invalidname »

mping wrote: post #428
invalidname wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an atheist too. That is a false equivalency. Guess which country is the 4th or 5th most secular country in the world... It might surprise you: Israel. Yep. That's thanks to the "Jews" who are jews in creed, not religion. Israel has its fanatics for sure and they gained more power in the last election. But it isn't controlled by its fanatics by any stretch of the imagination.

Don't have a horse in the race. Isn't Israeli constitution specifically about the Jewish people, as a ethnic, religious group? I read it discriminates against interfaith marriages, etc

Israel doesn't have a constitution. There's the declaration of independence which does explicitly say the Jewish People. But the interpretation of that is varied. The closest thing Israel has to a founding father (who died before the country was formed) is Hertzel and he called it "state of the Jews". Many make a strong distinction between that and "Jewish state" as American TV anchors like to say (that's like nails on a blackboard for me).

Israel doesn't have civil unions. It only has religious marriage any religion is OK but the religions do discriminate. This is both problematic and a blessing. I'm not married to my spouse because I'm an atheist, but Israel has a "known in public" status which gives us the same rights (and some obligations) as married people. That means Gay and inter-religion couples can enjoy all the rights.

Another option some people take is to fly to nearby cypress to have a civil union which is recognized in Israeli courts.

About the broader question. Yes, there are religious elements in the government that have been pushing the secular envelope. This creates a lot of friction within Israeli society. E.g. there's a law against pastries in passover which is just the dumbest thing ever... Unenforceable and just stupid. There's also regulations prohibiting Jews from working on a Sabath (supposedly as a labor protection). Notice that both laws mostly affect people who are listed as "Jews" even if they are secular.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#430

Post by jacknews »

orionsbelt wrote: post #351
jacknews wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, and in fact they will just create more radicals, and push the existing ones to even more barbaric extremes. I'm starting to feel radical myself, and I have no connection at all to events, other than being able to spot a bully obviously about to carry out systematic barbarism in retribution.

Was the U.S. entering WW2 after Pearl Harbor just systematic barbarism in retribution?

Non sequiteur, as AFAIK America had not been systematically oppressing Japan for decades.

Pearl Harbor was not then a desperate attempt to upturn the rotten-apple cart, but a simple imperial power grab.

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