Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 610 posts

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#331

Post by jacquesm »

catlover76 wrote: post #264
mcpackieh wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been watching live webcam footage of Gaza since things started to get hot. I've watched huge bombs level buildings in Gaza out of the blue with no preceding small explosions as warning. Whatever the IDF may say, they aren't "roof knocking".

Dude, why would you watch something like that? I'm not accusing you of being perverse or anything, but what is your motivation and your reasoning?

I used to do this, no longer because I don't have the stomach for it, but live cameras were my bread and butter for a long time and some of them were in conflict regions. I found that what I saw with my own eyes wasn't always what was reported in the news.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#332

Post by invalidname »

bluish29 wrote: post #319
invalidname wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also included offices for the Hamas and was a symbol of its power. That was the main motivation for removing it.

Any solid evidence?

Only what Israeli press published at the time. I doubt they would pick that as their first major target if it didn't have some connection to the Hamas.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#333

Post by bawolff »

teleforce wrote: post #321
invalidname wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also included offices for the Hamas and was a symbol of its power. That was the main motivation for removing it.

It seems that some people easily believe in Israel propaganda without digging the actual reasons, and how can the people know the actual reasons when the facts are all buried together with the rubbles of communication infrastructure and the main offices of reporting news agencies. It is part of international laws and basic human rights that during the war you cannot demolish communication infrastructure, churches, mo…

> It is part of international laws and basic human rights that during the war you cannot demolish communication infrastructure, churches, mosques, hospitals, news agency offices, schools, civilian homes, etc.

Umm you can if they are being used for military purposes.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#334

Post by tachyons »

YZF wrote: post #310
tachyons wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no surprise in not taking journalists as source from a side who murder journalists. But let's keep that aside - Why does Palestines are restricted from using their own water? - Why does Israely military rules apply on Palestine? - How does Palestinian citizens are responsible for the failure of Israely government of precise and targeted attack? - Why does Israely government including the prime minister dehum…

Are we talking about the west bank or Gaza here? - It is true that some Palestinians in the west bank are treated very badly including taking over their water wells. There's a long story or a short story there. We have a right wing government in Israel that supports right wing settlers in the west bank and is trying to kill any hope of peace with Palestinians. - Israel occupied the west bank from Jordan in 1967. The…

Regarding PTSD, don't you think Palestinians are in much worse position? Even if you killed every single Hamas member, relatives of those who are murdered during this genocide will attempt revenge in future right?

Or is starving everyone to death so that there won't be any vengeance is the strategy?

When two neighbours, who genuinely believe that their neighbour will kill them if they get a chance, peace is hard and time consuming task, especially when they have wounds that will take decades to heal.

The least human thing to do there is to stop causing more wounds, as UN secretary general said, Oct 7 wasn't happened from the vaccuum.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#335

Post by bluish29 »

invalidname wrote: post #332
bluish29 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any solid evidence?

Only what Israeli press published at the time. I doubt they would pick that as their first major target if it didn't have some connection to the Hamas.

So you don't have a solid evidence that you can share and instead relying on "They wouldn't pick that as first major target if it wasn't " as some sort of evidence that you felt is enough to repeat the claim without even mentioning that there is no evidence available?

I don't think you are being honest here.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#336

Post by jacquesm »

petertodd wrote: post #251
philistine wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the Israeli goal is shockingly quaint: get the government in Gaza, who is Hamas, to surrender unconditionally. Attack until the leadership of the movement is completely demoralized and gives up. Mind you I 100% disagree that it is possible. Israel is looking at a long occupation.

"shockingly quaint" That's basically what happened to WW2 Germany. The country was crushed to the point where they unconditionally surrendered, killing 5 million German soldiers in the process. Nazism is pretty much dead in Germany. So the approach did in fact work, and quite possibly would have worked even without the Marshal plan.

> Nazism is pretty much dead in Germany.

You wish.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#337

Post by invalidname »

jacquesm wrote: post #326
invalidname wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel did commit human rights violations. On most days I would be right there with you on that. But that's "what aboutism" in this particular case. I have Palestinian friends and people in Gaza. I feel terrible for them. But there's really no choice here. This is the point you're ignoring. Hamas is a cancer on the Palestinian people. It must be removed. It would be painful and probably result in many casualties on b…

> Hamas is a cancer on the Palestinian people. You are seeing a cause, I'm seeing a symptom. > Killing civilians while aiming at the Hamas is never "right". Not only is it not right: it strengthens Hamas and will result in more anti-Israel sentiment in the rest of the world. "Look at what you made me do" doesn't work on that level. > But letting the Hamas keep going is far worse than the alternative, it will embolden…

> > Hamas is a cancer on the Palestinian people. > > You are seeing a cause, I'm seeing a symptom.

Nonsense.

There were two major Palestinian terrorist organizations. The PLO was the older and back in the day the more violent of the two.

It was able to get over its aggression and come to a peace settlement with Israel who also put everything behind it.

The Hamas blew up busses, cafes etc. Killed MANY civilians in suicide bombings and destroyed that peace. They were always an evil fanatical organization that doesn't care about their own peoples well being in favor of an extremist insane goal.

> > Killing civilians while aiming at the Hamas is never "right". > > Not only is it not right: it strengthens Hamas and will result in more anti-Israel sentiment in the rest of the world. "Look at what you made me do" doesn't work on that level.

On that I agree. I think Israel should better communicate how it is trying to avoid civilian casualties in this process. But yes, this is just terrible.

> But for that to happen Israel too will need to make concessions and as long as both sides only think in terms of violence this will simply not stop.

100%. That's why I'm thankful for Biden. He was blamed for being too much "pro Israel" by idiots who don't understand his savvy. He was really hated in Israel who mostly loved Trump up until 3 weeks ago. This flipped overnight. Now he has deep control over the government and can use it both for humane aid and to guide the exit plan after. He understands the nuances deeply and is navigating them very well.

It's still a pretty hard task. Eliminating the Hamas is hard. Eliminating the idea of the Hamas is impossible. Making it unpopular is a difficult but probably attainable goal.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#338

Post by invalidname »

bluish29 wrote: post #335
invalidname wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only what Israeli press published at the time. I doubt they would pick that as their first major target if it didn't have some connection to the Hamas.

So you don't have a solid evidence that you can share and instead relying on "They wouldn't pick that as first major target if it wasn't " as some sort of evidence that you felt is enough to repeat the claim without even mentioning that there is no evidence available? I don't think you are being honest here.

I can probably find the Israeli paper article from the first day of the war but you said you won't believe it anyway. So what's the point?

What evidence do you have that the Israeli intelligence was wrong in this case?

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#339

Post by GloomyBoots »

catlover76 wrote: post #264
mcpackieh wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been watching live webcam footage of Gaza since things started to get hot. I've watched huge bombs level buildings in Gaza out of the blue with no preceding small explosions as warning. Whatever the IDF may say, they aren't "roof knocking".

Dude, why would you watch something like that? I'm not accusing you of being perverse or anything, but what is your motivation and your reasoning?

I used to do it regularly with major events. Set up streams of multiple live sources and just watch things play out. You get a very different perspective on things than if you watch the handful of clips and images that get replayed constantly on the news.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#340

Post by jacquesm »

zogrodea wrote: post #260
DoreenMichele wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

“Should we be unable to find a way to honest cooperation and honest pacts with the Arabs, then we have learned absolutely nothing during our 2,000 years of suffering.” Einstein in his letter to Zionist leader Chaim Weizmann, Nov. 25, 1929, AEA (Albert Einstein Archives) 33-411. He's not alone in this sentiment. Other prominent Jews like Hannah Arendt were anti-Zionist too.

As are many present day Jews both inside and outside of Israel. And not all of those are of the same plumage either, there are moderate anti-Zionist Jews as well as Ultra-Orthodox anti-Zionist Jews. It's all pretty confusing, from what I understand it has to do with different opinions on how the state of Israel came into being for the latter.
Post reply on HN