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The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

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Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#231

Post by jacquesm »

petertodd wrote: post #223
enterprise_cog wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if Israel stopped killing Palestinians and normalized relations with Gaza? Israel could choose a different path.

> What if Israel stopped killing Palestinians and normalized relations with Gaza? Israel could choose a different path. Hamas slaughtered over a thousand Jewish civilians three weeks ago. They've been continuously launching rockets into Israel since then. They have been able to do that because Israel had chosen to partially normalize relations, eg by allowing trucks to import goods into Gaza, allowing the import of c…

I don't particularly value an Israeli life any higher than I do a Palestinian one. Palestinians have died in larger numbers, just not as suddenly and that's what makes the difference in terms of the response but dead is dead, no matter whether you're the statistic of the day or a victim in a large scale attack.

Hamas has given Israel a good reason to strike back but not indiscriminately and in retribution you have to work really hard to not sink to the level of your attacker - or even lower. Note that Israel has zero reasons to keep settling more and more ground and bulldozing more Palestinian homes and that as long as that keeps happening and they overreact to various attacks this conflict will simply never end. And that's exactly how Hamas and the Hawks want it, because it legitimizes their existence, they relish the conflict.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#232

Post by nwiswell »

catlover76 wrote: post #177
nwiswell wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is genocidal language where you are holding civilians accountable. The entire situation is deeply regrettable and it's hard to find any heroes here, but I feel like we forget our own history so easily. The United States, within living memory, conducted a firebombing campaign of Dresden, which had limited military value, killing over 25,000. We interned over 100,000 of our own citizens of Japanese ancestry. We…

So...you're saying too bad for the people in Gaza because bad shit happened to other people before? Like, what is really the point of your comment? I don't see where the person to whom you replied said "if only Israel was like the US" or something

> Like, what is really the point of your comment

Basically that what matters are international norms rather than international laws, and while Israel is plainly breaking international laws, it's less clear that they're breaking international norms.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#233

Post by bawolff »

bluish29 wrote: post #11
bawolff wrote: post #9

Dirupting enemy communications is a pretty standard goal of any army in a war. I'm more surprised it took this long.

Cutting communication with outside world is a standard step in genocide and committing war crimes too.

I mean, war crimes take place in the context of war, so anything standard during a war would also be pretty common during a war crime. I don't think you can really draw any conclusions from that.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#234

Post by nwiswell »

logicchains wrote: post #115
nwiswell wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is genocidal language where you are holding civilians accountable. The entire situation is deeply regrettable and it's hard to find any heroes here, but I feel like we forget our own history so easily. The United States, within living memory, conducted a firebombing campaign of Dresden, which had limited military value, killing over 25,000. We interned over 100,000 of our own citizens of Japanese ancestry. We…

>The United States, within living memory, conducted a firebombing campaign of Dresden, which had limited military value, killing over 25,000. We interned over 100,000 of our own citizens of Japanese ancestry. We conducted a firebombing campaign of Tokyo, killing around 100,000 civilians and leaving over a million homeless. The United States was the most powerful country by far at the time. Israel is tiny in compariso…

> and make enemies with all its neighbours

too late.

Israel exists because it won the 1967 war, when many of its neighbors simultaneously tried to invade.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#235

Post by tachyons »

YZF wrote: post #217
tachyons wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it was just a an eyewash, people tried to move got killed on the way, people also got murdered in the so called safe areas by Israel.

Do you have a breakdown of how many civilian casualties were in the north vs. south? And how many were killed on the way? Israel denies attacking anyone on the way. There was plenty of reporting showing people moving along the main arteries that were recommended and those look clear with no debris or any other evidence of attack. I'm aware of a single incident where it was claimed Israel attacked someone evacuating a…

Take control over all water sources, electricity and disconnect it, ask people to leave their house without even enough food and destroy whatever they have gained during the life time. And still bomb them claiming that location they moved has military targets. https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/8/27/photos-palestini... (pre Oct 7)

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#236

Post by ChumpGPT »

I wonder what is the tipping point for the Arab world. What is the magic number, 10k,20k,100k dead. Does it get to a point where Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon even Jordan, SA, etc start to say enough is enough.

This could turn into a pretty big war, dragging in all kinds of countries. If they end up destroying all of Gaza and killing 50k and no one does anything then the Palestinians should understand they have been abandon by the Arab world and have no future.

Interesting times...

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#237

Post by junofan »

FireBeyond wrote: post #122
petertodd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's estimated that Hamas has between 30,000 and 40,000 soldiers(1), which is about 6% to 8% of Gaza's entire adult male population. There's no way of getting around it: if Israel finishes the job of eradicating Hamas, a large percentage of the Gazan population will be killed or captured, purely because so many of them are actively involved in Hamas. Anyway, if Gazan citizens learn the lessons of their mistakes, they…

> Anyway, if Gazan citizens learn the lessons of their mistakes, they still have a future. Mistakes? To be clear, before I continue further: Hamas is a terrorist organization. Hamas also has a lot of support within Palestine. Now then, scenario 1) how, realistically, do you propose that the regular non-Hamas supporting Palestinian works to eradicate Hamas? Hamas have arms. (Let's not also forget how hard right Israel…

I think polling shows majority just want to leave Gaza. I mean half of Gaza is unemployed and Hamas pays. Hamas also provides social services. The only thing that separates Hamas from a fringe radical group is money and a plan to use it to leave Gaza.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#238

Post by ipaddr »

culi wrote: post #199
Danidin wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Yes, let's let this terrorists who killed babies cold blooded This is a completely made up fake story that's oft repeated by the Netanyahu administration. No basis in reality And you should really learn about the history of Palestine and all the attempts at peace. Israel has occupied Palestine for decades and has murdered thousands. In 2014 alone they killed 2,300 Palestinians. 70% of those being civilians. In retu…

Hamas is 8% of Gaza's males and whatever families support them at the least.

"If you lost your brother, mother, sister, etc, wouldn't that push you to... doing something? Anything?"

Are you saying you support Israel's response?

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#239

Post by enterprise_cog »

petertodd wrote: post #223
enterprise_cog wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if Israel stopped killing Palestinians and normalized relations with Gaza? Israel could choose a different path.

> What if Israel stopped killing Palestinians and normalized relations with Gaza? Israel could choose a different path. Hamas slaughtered over a thousand Jewish civilians three weeks ago. They've been continuously launching rockets into Israel since then. They have been able to do that because Israel had chosen to partially normalize relations, eg by allowing trucks to import goods into Gaza, allowing the import of c…

Oh, so if only they went back to a total lockdown of Gaza and treated it like a more maximum security prison, then this wouldn’t have happened?

What if they didn’t treat it like a prison, or Palestinians like subhuman prisoners? Do you think that maybe then they wouldn’t want to go on raids and kill people? That those 1400 soldiers and civilians would still be alive?

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#240

Post by [deleted] »

mc32 wrote: post #179
enterprise_cog wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948,” - Ariel Kallner, member of the Likud party. So we agree Israel is committing genocide.

Do you see the irony, you believe one's statements, but the other, you equivocate. Above you were arguing you have to wait and see if they really actually mean it in reality.

[deleted]
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