LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month • Hacker News Board

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#61

Post by slg » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 4:54 PM UTC

overrun11 wrote: post #55

slg wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Go give 1k to a homeless guy...he'll still be homeless, and probably dead thanks to what you enabled. Why do people assume that every homeless person is both an idiot and an addict? Especially in cities in which real estate is as expensive as Los Angeles, the overwhelming majority of homeless people aren't there because of addiction issues. All the numbers I have seen suggest that only a quarter of LA's homeless pop…

You're using a very different definition of homeless than the person you're replying to. Visibly homeless people– those who literally are living on the streets absolutely do have some sort of addiction or mental illness.

Yes, the definitions are part of my point if you read between the lines of my comment.

The definition of homeless I am using is literally "a person without a home". The person I responded to is using an incorrect definition.

That leaves two options. They knew this and they don't actually care about the problem of people not having homes. Or they didn't know that the "visibly homeless" are only a minority of all "homeless" in which case they can learn from this conversation.

>those who literally are living on the streets absolutely do have some sort of addiction or mental illness.

I don't know how you can say this as definitively as you are.

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#62

Post by smcg » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 5:03 PM UTC

cenobyte wrote: post #5

As a programmer from a bad family, group home, foster family background myself. $1k per month without working or struggle would have destroyed me. Imagine all the weed and whiskey I could have bought for that? (Which is what I would have done) Instead of working I would have been lazy. Homelessness and hunger was my major motivator and made me work in fast food while dreaming of computers. The lack of struggle would…

That was then this is now. The recipients are 21-23. They need a place to live. 1000/month barely covers rent now.

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#63

Post by smcg » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 5:07 PM UTC

Difwif wrote: post #24

toomuchtodo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

25% of foster kids end up homeless after aging out of the system. Direct cash transfer value is mostly proven from a social work/benefit perspective. Sure, coaching and counseling through social services must also be provided to help underprivileged humans take care of themselves and reach their full potential, but cash benefits help, full stop. The moral hazard argument needs to die. There is a difference between st…

No they have a point and you're covering your eyes and ears to the problems you make. I received $20k when I was 16 for reasons related to my mothers death. I did not spend that money wisely at all (literally drugs). It's one thing when we're talking about fully developed adults (the 25yo kind, not the 18 ones) getting a UBI and another when we're talking about kids in bad environments with poor mentors. I wish someo…

you were 16 and coping with the death of your mother. nobody should be given that kind of responsibility to set up their finances. how much did they teach you about finances by 16? if that money was set up in a trust for you that dispersed income over time or directly paid rent then that probably would have been very helpful.

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#64

Post by kej » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 5:28 PM UTC

sickofparadox wrote: post #42

candiddevmike wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> taxpayers are not funding their lives Right, because they all still pay their fair share of taxes, medicare, and social security?

The top 5% of earners paid 62.7% of all federal income taxes in recent years[1], so I'd imagine that yes, they do pay their fair share. [1] https://taxfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/FedData...

It's not quite so lopsided when you look at the whole picture, but it doesn't make as good of a talking point: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/fact-check-richest-1...

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#65

Post by jstarfish » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 5:29 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #39

jstarfish wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're proving his point. $1k isn't enough to do anything with, so it's going to get wasted on vice. Go give 1k to a homeless guy...he'll still be homeless, and probably dead thanks to what you enabled. Qualify them for food stamps or something if you want to help. Cash always leads to trouble.

>Go give 1k to a homeless guy...he'll still be homeless, and probably dead thanks to what you enabled. Why do people assume that every homeless person is both an idiot and an addict? Especially in cities in which real estate is as expensive as Los Angeles, the overwhelming majority of homeless people aren't there because of addiction issues. All the numbers I have seen suggest that only a quarter of LA's homeless pop…

> Why do people assume that every homeless person is both an idiot and an addict?

Look, you're not wrong, but you're also making a few assumptions yourself.

You know what else happens to poor people who come into large sums of money? They become a target.

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#66

Post by RC_ITR » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 5:39 PM UTC

jstarfish wrote: post #26

RC_ITR wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would a $1,000 raise at your job have been as devastating? Surely you're not implying $12k/year in Los Angeles (a county with c. $3k/month median rent) is going to create a class of willfully unemployed former foster-kids with no drive? Should we also ban parents sending their kids money for the same reason? Or are foster kids uniquely prone to laziness?

You're proving his point. $1k isn't enough to do anything with, so it's going to get wasted on vice. Go give 1k to a homeless guy...he'll still be homeless, and probably dead thanks to what you enabled. Qualify them for food stamps or something if you want to help. Cash always leads to trouble.

>You're proving his point. $1k isn't enough to do anything with, so it's going to get wasted on vice.

Or, and hear me out here, it could supplement the $2,400/month someone makes working 160 hours at $15/hour.

Again, keep in mind, median rent in LA county is is >$3k/month.

IDK everyone in this thread thinks so poorly of former foster kids. Have they not had it hard enough?

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#67

Post by gameman144 » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 5:40 PM UTC

addicted wrote: post #56

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The responses that completely ignore addiction and mental health need to die. Can you address what the parent described about mental health and addiction? Would you rather invest $10k into someone who has shown you they're reliable, or someone who has shown you they are unreliable? Please answer both questions.

Good reason to screen out people with mental health and addiction issues, at least in a trial, and if it’s successful then when you do start incorporating people with those issues you can come up with a plan to address that as well.

If the goal is to reduce the rate of negative outcomes for youth aging out of foster care, though, aren't the ones with mental health or addiction problems exactly the ones who would need help the most?

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#68

Post by giantg2 » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 5:42 PM UTC

sidewndr46 wrote: post #19

giantg2 wrote: post #4

Former foster youth 21-23 in age. I was initially confused what foster youth would be spending $1k/mo on.

wouldn't it make more sense to start this on the day they age out of the system?

21 is when kids age out in CA.

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#69

Post by gameman144 » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 5:42 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #27

cenobyte wrote: post #5

As a programmer from a bad family, group home, foster family background myself. $1k per month without working or struggle would have destroyed me. Imagine all the weed and whiskey I could have bought for that? (Which is what I would have done) Instead of working I would have been lazy. Homelessness and hunger was my major motivator and made me work in fast food while dreaming of computers. The lack of struggle would…

The idea that $12k is enough to allow you to be lazy and not work in Los Angeles is completely ignorant of the cost of the city. That is a third of a full time minimum wage job. That money is going to stop a lot more people from being homeless than it will cause people to quit their job.

I agree that that's the hope. One also has to consider, though, that instead of transitioning from homeless to housed, the infusion of money might transition some folks from homeless to homeless with a budget to fuel addictions.

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#70

Post by Difwif » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 6:04 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #45

Difwif wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they have a point and you're covering your eyes and ears to the problems you make. I received $20k when I was 16 for reasons related to my mothers death. I did not spend that money wisely at all (literally drugs). It's one thing when we're talking about fully developed adults (the 25yo kind, not the 18 ones) getting a UBI and another when we're talking about kids in bad environments with poor mentors. I wish someo…

From the article: >Two hundred randomly selected former DCFS foster youth across the county between 21 and 23 years of age will now receive $1,000 a month for the next two years Both literally and in terms of maturity, 21 is closer to 25 than it is 16. Also one lump sum payment is much easier to waste than an ongoing monthly payment.

If I spent that $20k on drugs at once I would have been dead. Instead it supported years of poor decision making and avoiding building my future. I started getting my act together at 19 (money was long gone) and it wasn't until 23 that I stopped making really poor decisions.

The best thing I did with it was use a couple thousand to buy a used car. The money should have gone into a trust with someone guaranteeing I used the money on food, clothes, school, etc. What I needed the most was someone that cared enough to guide me. The money by itself set me back.