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LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

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Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#21

Post by candiddevmike »

cenobyte wrote: post #5

As a programmer from a bad family, group home, foster family background myself. $1k per month without working or struggle would have destroyed me. Imagine all the weed and whiskey I could have bought for that? (Which is what I would have done) Instead of working I would have been lazy. Homelessness and hunger was my major motivator and made me work in fast food while dreaming of computers. The lack of struggle would…

> Instead of working I would have been lazy.

Isn't that what folks who don't have to work for a living do? Why is it frowned upon for poor people to do the same?

Although IMO $1000/month probably means you only have to work 1-2 part time jobs to get by, nowhere near lazy territory, especially in LA.

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#22

Post by baseballdork »

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #14
toomuchtodo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

25% of foster kids end up homeless after aging out of the system. Direct cash transfer value is mostly proven from a social work/benefit perspective. Sure, coaching and counseling through social services must also be provided to help underprivileged humans take care of themselves and reach their full potential, but cash benefits help, full stop. The moral hazard argument needs to die. There is a difference between st…

The responses that completely ignore addiction and mental health need to die. Can you address what the parent described about mental health and addiction? Would you rather invest $10k into someone who has shown you they're reliable, or someone who has shown you they are unreliable? Please answer both questions.

The parent merely stated that they don't think they could have handled $1k/m. That's fine. They aren't in the group that will receive.

As for the second question, is the implication that former foster kids are "unreliable" and we should instead be investing somewhere else?

Why don't you address the "25% of former foster kids find themselves homeless" stat? Are these kids just getting too much assistance to be driven to... work fast food?

I really don't understand these perspectives.

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#23

Post by WalterBright »

RC_ITR wrote: post #7
cenobyte wrote: post #5

As a programmer from a bad family, group home, foster family background myself. $1k per month without working or struggle would have destroyed me. Imagine all the weed and whiskey I could have bought for that? (Which is what I would have done) Instead of working I would have been lazy. Homelessness and hunger was my major motivator and made me work in fast food while dreaming of computers. The lack of struggle would…

Would a $1,000 raise at your job have been as devastating? Surely you're not implying $12k/year in Los Angeles (a county with c. $3k/month median rent) is going to create a class of willfully unemployed former foster-kids with no drive? Should we also ban parents sending their kids money for the same reason? Or are foster kids uniquely prone to laziness?

When I was young I couldn't afford rent, so I had roommates. It was normal back then for several individuals to rent a house and share it.

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#24

Post by Difwif »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #6
cenobyte wrote: post #5

As a programmer from a bad family, group home, foster family background myself. $1k per month without working or struggle would have destroyed me. Imagine all the weed and whiskey I could have bought for that? (Which is what I would have done) Instead of working I would have been lazy. Homelessness and hunger was my major motivator and made me work in fast food while dreaming of computers. The lack of struggle would…

25% of foster kids end up homeless after aging out of the system. Direct cash transfer value is mostly proven from a social work/benefit perspective. Sure, coaching and counseling through social services must also be provided to help underprivileged humans take care of themselves and reach their full potential, but cash benefits help, full stop. The moral hazard argument needs to die. There is a difference between st…

No they have a point and you're covering your eyes and ears to the problems you make. I received $20k when I was 16 for reasons related to my mothers death. I did not spend that money wisely at all (literally drugs). It's one thing when we're talking about fully developed adults (the 25yo kind, not the 18 ones) getting a UBI and another when we're talking about kids in bad environments with poor mentors.

I wish someone would have taken that money from me and put it in college fund or IRA at the very least. Likewise this is a wellfare program for kids and we should ensure it's spent on their wellfare.

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#25

Post by sickofparadox »

candiddevmike wrote: post #21
cenobyte wrote: post #5

As a programmer from a bad family, group home, foster family background myself. $1k per month without working or struggle would have destroyed me. Imagine all the weed and whiskey I could have bought for that? (Which is what I would have done) Instead of working I would have been lazy. Homelessness and hunger was my major motivator and made me work in fast food while dreaming of computers. The lack of struggle would…

> Instead of working I would have been lazy. Isn't that what folks who don't have to work for a living do? Why is it frowned upon for poor people to do the same? Although IMO $1000/month probably means you only have to work 1-2 part time jobs to get by, nowhere near lazy territory, especially in LA.

I believe its frowned upon for people of all social classes, but there's less discussion about those who "don't have to work" because taxpayers are not funding their lives.

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#26

Post by jstarfish »

RC_ITR wrote: post #7
cenobyte wrote: post #5

As a programmer from a bad family, group home, foster family background myself. $1k per month without working or struggle would have destroyed me. Imagine all the weed and whiskey I could have bought for that? (Which is what I would have done) Instead of working I would have been lazy. Homelessness and hunger was my major motivator and made me work in fast food while dreaming of computers. The lack of struggle would…

Would a $1,000 raise at your job have been as devastating? Surely you're not implying $12k/year in Los Angeles (a county with c. $3k/month median rent) is going to create a class of willfully unemployed former foster-kids with no drive? Should we also ban parents sending their kids money for the same reason? Or are foster kids uniquely prone to laziness?

You're proving his point.

$1k isn't enough to do anything with, so it's going to get wasted on vice.

Go give 1k to a homeless guy...he'll still be homeless, and probably dead thanks to what you enabled.

Qualify them for food stamps or something if you want to help. Cash always leads to trouble.

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#27

Post by slg »

cenobyte wrote: post #5

As a programmer from a bad family, group home, foster family background myself. $1k per month without working or struggle would have destroyed me. Imagine all the weed and whiskey I could have bought for that? (Which is what I would have done) Instead of working I would have been lazy. Homelessness and hunger was my major motivator and made me work in fast food while dreaming of computers. The lack of struggle would…

The idea that $12k is enough to allow you to be lazy and not work in Los Angeles is completely ignorant of the cost of the city. That is a third of a full time minimum wage job. That money is going to stop a lot more people from being homeless than it will cause people to quit their job.

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#28

Post by candiddevmike »

sickofparadox wrote: post #25
candiddevmike wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead of working I would have been lazy. Isn't that what folks who don't have to work for a living do? Why is it frowned upon for poor people to do the same? Although IMO $1000/month probably means you only have to work 1-2 part time jobs to get by, nowhere near lazy territory, especially in LA.

I believe its frowned upon for people of all social classes, but there's less discussion about those who "don't have to work" because taxpayers are not funding their lives.

> taxpayers are not funding their lives

Right, because they all still pay their fair share of taxes, medicare, and social security?

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#29

Post by matwood »

cenobyte wrote: post #5

As a programmer from a bad family, group home, foster family background myself. $1k per month without working or struggle would have destroyed me. Imagine all the weed and whiskey I could have bought for that? (Which is what I would have done) Instead of working I would have been lazy. Homelessness and hunger was my major motivator and made me work in fast food while dreaming of computers. The lack of struggle would…

I appreciate your point, but would have 1k/month have actually changed your struggle or motivation? Or to put another way, why weren't you spending all the money you did make on weed and whiskey?

Re: LA County's guaranteed income program to give some foster youth $1k per month

#30

Post by giraffe_lady »

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #14
toomuchtodo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

25% of foster kids end up homeless after aging out of the system. Direct cash transfer value is mostly proven from a social work/benefit perspective. Sure, coaching and counseling through social services must also be provided to help underprivileged humans take care of themselves and reach their full potential, but cash benefits help, full stop. The moral hazard argument needs to die. There is a difference between st…

The responses that completely ignore addiction and mental health need to die. Can you address what the parent described about mental health and addiction? Would you rather invest $10k into someone who has shown you they're reliable, or someone who has shown you they are unreliable? Please answer both questions.

You're ignoring mental health and addiction just as much though. Both are complex and interrelated. Poverty is incredibly stressful; my mental health was never as bad as it was when I was homeless.

Harm reduction is effective. I literally got off the street because someone gave me a garage to sleep (and use drugs!) in and $14k. Having a private space meant I stopped getting arrested for using, didn't risk losing all my possessions every time I went to a job interview. Allowed me to think about a future farther than 30 hours away. I could afford (and store) weed and beer instead of vodka and crack. I didn't have to be obliterated to sleep through the cold & noise of the highway under the bridge.

The first small steps were only possible because no one held me to the sort of standard you're advocating for.

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