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I face investigation for terrorism

craigmurray.org.uk

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Re: I face investigation for terrorism

#381

Post by Terr_ »

lmm wrote: post #325
skrebbel wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this look in practice? I’m not saying you’re wrong but your formulation suggests that some faceless people at the British Establishment Country Club put down their whiskeys, ordained that mr Murray be bullied and so it went. That’s the stuff of movies and dictatorships, right? Do random UK civil servants really abuse the system to this extent for personal or political gain?

It's the same as any other large organisation. Someone at the top says "oi, so-and-so has been a real pain lately huh". Someone one level down says "is there anything we can do about so-and-so?". Someone the next level down says "well, let's start a file on so-and-so, see if he's up to anything, no harm in that". And then since UK antiterrorism law is terribly written (or brilliantly written, depending on your perspe…

I wonder if something for just this scenario exists in the archives of the political comedy Yes [Prime] Minister. It feels like there should be.

Re: I face investigation for terrorism

#382

Post by lucubratory »

breakpointalpha wrote: post #244
robaato wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... Conducting an examination 34. The examining officer must explain their role to the person and that Schedule 7 is a part of counter-terrorism policing at the port/UK border, but that this does not mean that they are suspected of being involved in terrorism. The purpose of the examination is to determine whether the person appears to be someone who is or w…

Last sentence of section 39 makes it look like all you have to do is remain silent for 6 hours to be released. I'm not a lawyer.

Refusing to answer the questions is a crime. Once you've committed a crime, the examination part can give way to the "You're under arrest" part.

Re: I face investigation for terrorism

#383

Post by boffinAudio »

bawolff wrote: post #344
Symbiote wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlikely? The UN have already issued a warning: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/gaza-un-expe...

The press release is kind of undermined by using as its premise that israel targeted Al Ahli Arab Hospital despite there being significant evidence that it was actually a Palestinian group that did that. The article doesn't seem to be using an evidence based approach.

Just for the record, there are also claims supported by evidence, that Israel did it.

No conclusions should be made about that incident, either way. Other than the fact that innocent people are being slaughtered because of hatred.

Re: I face investigation for terrorism

#385

Post by m1keil »

octopoc wrote: post #189
dash2 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the people already living there were Jews. Many - about half IIRC - of the people who came there afterwards were refugees from surrounding Arab countries. What better demonstration could there have been that the Jewish people need a safe haven? Well, I can think of a better demonstration, because we saw it two weeks ago.

> Many - about half IIRC - of the people who came there afterwards were refugees from surrounding Arab countries. It's true that many Jews lived in harmony with Arab nations prior to the founding of Israel. Founding Israel is what made those relations go sour. That literally was where this whole conflict started for the aboriginal peoples of the Middle East. > Well, I can think of a better demonstration, because we s…

> The attacks wouldn't have happened if the founders of Israel (not all of whom were Jews, looking at you Britain) hadn't decided to interpret an ancient holy book in a genocidal way. > The Palestinians lived there. Israel has been in the process of kicking them out ever since its founding.

You seem to interpret the history in really one way here...

Re: I face investigation for terrorism

#386

Post by boffinAudio »

aembleton wrote: post #232
Arch-TK wrote: post #73

>This is an enormous abuse of human rights. The abuse of process in refusing both a lawyer and the right to remain silent, the inquiry into perfectly legal campaigning which is in no way terrorism-associated, the political questioning, the financial snooping and the seizure of material related to my private life, were all based on an utterly fake claim that I am associated with terrorism. It's not explicitly stated a…

The UK is still a member of the ECHR, so there are human rights.

It is a wholesale violator of human rights at massive scale and therefore the precedent for protection of rights under that state is simply non-existent. Magna Carta, Habeus Corpus - irrelevant given the massive, immense scale of the UK's wholesale abrogation of billions of human beings' rights.

Re: I face investigation for terrorism

#387

Post by coolThingsFirst »

boppo1 wrote: post #336
rmbyrro wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments took advantage of the extreme fear created after the 9/11 attacks to pass these absurd laws. I don't think we can call them "laws", because are clearly against the most fundamental values of any democracy. No country is free anymore. Not even the US, which enjoys bolstering itself as "the free world". Any freedom you enjoy in a democratic state nowadays is merely circumstantial and can disappear instantly…

>No country is free anymore. I was just thinking about this, imagining being indefinitely detained for terrorism because 4chan is in my browser history[0]. I'd take the fifth, and they would charge me with a crime, and so, the US Constitution is basically void. But then I wondered: was it ever really not? Was there ever a time I could have relied on legal justice if I happen to be in an unsympathetic jurisdiction? Be…

Why is 4chan so dangerous? Isnt it just an image board?

Re: I face investigation for terrorism

#388

Post by blibble »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #59
diggan wrote: post #3

Some context: > Craig John Murray is a Scottish author, human rights campaigner, journalist, and former diplomat [...] he became a political activist, campaigning for human rights and for transparency in global politics as well as for the independence of Scotland [...] Murray was one of few people granted access to Julian Assange's extradition hearing which started in the Old Bailey on 7 September 2020. He published…

The UK is very worried about Scottish Independence. Mr Murray is a very vocal supporter of that, and an active figurehead in the independence movement. I don't know, but I'm assuming that his support of Hamas is a nice pretext for the British Establishment to have another pop at him. As we predicted when the UK proposed these monstrous laws: they are being abused to go after anyone who annoys the establishment. That'…

these days Murray is an embarassment to anyone he associates with

if anything the UK gov would want him freely associating with the SNP

not locked up where he's prevented from embarrassing them

Re: I face investigation for terrorism

#389

Post by boffinAudio »

credit_guy wrote: post #239

Maybe some lawyer can explain to some complete noobie. I thought you always have the right to not answer any questions until you have your lawyer present, and that you have the right to that one phone call to a lawyer. My knowledge comes entirely from movies and novels. I understand that there could be exceptions, but what is the basic rationale of the exception here? The UK is a country of laws, and generally the la…

The exception is that the airport is not a part of the UK sovereign territory, but is rather considered an extra-territorial possession of the UK, akin to a colony, which can be governed separately.

Re: I face investigation for terrorism

#390

Post by [deleted] »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #340
enasterosophes wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possible months, for a new experience, and perhaps the consequences aren't so catastrophic. Lots of people go to jail and live long and happy lives afterwards. Don't live in fear, that is not worth it.

You do understand that in many places (and certainly in the U.S.) a criminal conviction, even a minor one, can mean the crushing destruction of your professional career, job prospects and all sorts of future opportunities. It's a shit show of a discriminatory system that keeps this alive but it's what it is and very real. For millions of people it would be a disaster that you don't just smile your way out of with som…

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