The comparison to sexism is pretty offensive to me (even though you try to minimize it early in the article, yet bring it up again via a link at the end). You're privileged to have the option to just not go to the party after the conference - women don't get to just "not be women".
It's sexist to assume all women have problems with conferences simply because they're women, or that we all think the same. Just sayin'.
Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)
11–20 of 93 posts
Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)
#12Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unfortunately for you, lots of people drink. It's not just a programmer thing. It's one of the most prominent ways people socialize. Not programmers, people. I'm sorry that you feel uncomfortable going to conferences because of the drinking, but unfortunately, it's something you should probably learn to accept. You can move cities, change careers, do whatever you want, but unfor…
> It's one of the most prominent ways people socialize. Not programmers, people. So if you don't drink you're not a person? Alcohol is generally prohibited in Islam. Are you going to tell me that there are entire nations inhabited by human non-people?
ctide didn't say anything of the sort. I think ctide was trying to generalise from programmers -> people not implying all of humanity.
I have seen this phenomena (?) of "binge conferences" in many other circles - medical, engineering, accounting, legal. Journalism.. the list goes on, so it is a fair point.
Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)
#13Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unfortunately for you, lots of people drink. It's not just a programmer thing. It's one of the most prominent ways people socialize. Not programmers, people. I'm sorry that you feel uncomfortable going to conferences because of the drinking, but unfortunately, it's something you should probably learn to accept. You can move cities, change careers, do whatever you want, but unfor…
> It's one of the most prominent ways people socialize. Not programmers, people. So if you don't drink you're not a person? Alcohol is generally prohibited in Islam. Are you going to tell me that there are entire nations inhabited by human non-people?
Even including Islamic countries in the set, drinking is still one of the most prominent ways people in general socialize on average.
Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)
#14Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unfortunately for you, lots of people drink. It's not just a programmer thing. It's one of the most prominent ways people socialize. Not programmers, people. I'm sorry that you feel uncomfortable going to conferences because of the drinking, but unfortunately, it's something you should probably learn to accept. You can move cities, change careers, do whatever you want, but unfor…
> It's one of the most prominent ways people socialize. Not programmers, people. So if you don't drink you're not a person? Alcohol is generally prohibited in Islam. Are you going to tell me that there are entire nations inhabited by human non-people?
In this particular case, it's more likely that the grandparent meant "this is something that most people do — programmers are not unusual in this regard, so it's weird to single them out."
Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)
#15Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unfortunately for you, lots of people drink. It's not just a programmer thing. It's one of the most prominent ways people socialize. Not programmers, people. I'm sorry that you feel uncomfortable going to conferences because of the drinking, but unfortunately, it's something you should probably learn to accept. You can move cities, change careers, do whatever you want, but unfor…
> It's one of the most prominent ways people socialize. Not programmers, people. So if you don't drink you're not a person? Alcohol is generally prohibited in Islam. Are you going to tell me that there are entire nations inhabited by human non-people?
Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)
#16Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unfortunately for you, lots of people drink. It's not just a programmer thing. It's one of the most prominent ways people socialize. Not programmers, people. I'm sorry that you feel uncomfortable going to conferences because of the drinking, but unfortunately, it's something you should probably learn to accept. You can move cities, change careers, do whatever you want, but unfor…
> It's one of the most prominent ways people socialize. Not programmers, people. So if you don't drink you're not a person? Alcohol is generally prohibited in Islam. Are you going to tell me that there are entire nations inhabited by human non-people?
Arguments of the type of "well, I've seen lots of people do this" just smell of availability bias. I can't argue that you're wrong, but you haven't given a good enough argument for me to conclude that you're correct.
Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's one of the most prominent ways people socialize. Not programmers, people. So if you don't drink you're not a person? Alcohol is generally prohibited in Islam. Are you going to tell me that there are entire nations inhabited by human non-people?
Okay, I'll admit to being rather hyperbolic here. However, when you say things like, "This is something that people do." it sounds a lot like you're making a universal statement about people everywhere. Arguments of the type of "well, I've seen lots of people do this" just smell of availability bias. I can't argue that you're wrong, but you haven't given a good enough argument for me to conclude that you're correct.
The OP, on the other hand, is much more of a "Well, I've seen lots of people do this" argument: It's explicitly based on his personal experience with conferences.
Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)
#18That actually puts him in the same company as the brogrammers, who think that drinking is somehow makes their group special. The OP looks at drunken antics and thinks "those idiots" (emphasis on "those"), while they think "we're so cool" (emphasis on "we").
Compare to how I perceive most drinkers: people who want to have a conversation, and use alcohol to provide both the venue and a small social lubricant. Having been to a few github meetups in SF, they're largely sober affairs - I haven't observed much alcoholism or drunkenness. Conferences are a bit worse, but that's because people start drinking earlier.
It's not hard to enjoy these conferences, even as a non-drinker. Geeks chatting to geeks about geekery. Yes it happens in the pub; yes most people are drinking; yes some people have an unhealthy attitude to drinking - but that's life. I would suggest the OP tries again: roll your eyes at those bragging about drinking, ignore the guys slurring their words, and have good geeky conversation with the other 90% (a number which obviously diminishes the longer the event goes on).
Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)
#19Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's one of the most prominent ways people socialize. Not programmers, people. So if you don't drink you're not a person? Alcohol is generally prohibited in Islam. Are you going to tell me that there are entire nations inhabited by human non-people?
No, then if you don't drink, you simply don't participate in one of the most prominent ways people socialize. There was no implication of sub-humanity there. Strawmen are bad. Even including Islamic countries in the set, drinking is still one of the most prominent ways people in general socialize on average.
If that were true that would be bad - drinking at conferences would then truly alienate non-drinkers. But actually, non-drinkers can participate just fine in one of the most prominent ways people socialize.