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Windows 11's default mail client will show ads starting 2024

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Re: Windows 11's default mail client will show ads starting 2024

#111

Post by pmontra »

Aardwolf wrote: post #28
Farbklex wrote: post #2

"Mail" on Windows notified me that starting with 2024, Outlook will replace it as the new default Mail client on Windows. It also asked me if I want to switch now. I decided to try it out and during setup of the new free Outlook I got asked how I want to see my ads: As a banner above the mail window or in my inbox. This took my by surprise since it essentially means, that the default mail client for Windows now will…

I've been out of the loop due to using Linux the last 20 years, but back when I was using Windows XP, the default mail client was also called Outlook (well, Outlook Express). So apparently I missed some time period where it was called "Mail" instead. But now it'll be Outlook again. Full circle!

Full circle twice: there was a Microsoft Mail well before Microsoft Outlook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Mail

Re: Windows 11's default mail client will show ads starting 2024

#112

Post by IshKebab »

jszymborski wrote: post #25

When I switched to Linux in university, it was as an idle curiosity and the pleasure of knowing my OS was FOSS. I knew I was sacrificing a bit of practicality, but like the person that works on their vintage motorcycle in the garage, the hassle was part of the fun. I would often run Windows on a second machine or at work though, I felt equally productive in both Linux and Windows. Fast-forward a decade and the Linux…

I'm not sure how much the Linux situation has improved really. I used to use Linux in the early 2000s when I was a student and had time to burn. Quickly switched back to Windows/Mac when I got a job and needed stuff to "just work".

However recently I started working for a company that provides Linux laptops. I was curious how much things had improved in 20 years. My conclusion is: not much.

Here are some of the issues I've had:

* Linux memory management is still really bad. On OOM it kills a completely random process and 90% of the time for me that means it hard-reboots my laptop. Maybe this is partly because they didn't set it up with any swap for some reason, but I'm unsure that would help (in 2003 it didn't; the system would just grind to an unresponsive halt... but we didn't have SSDs then).

* If you set a WiFi network to automatically connect to a VPN, then delete that VPN, it means the WiFi connection will always just instantly fail with no error message. Even dmesg didn't help. You can imagine how fun that was to figure out.

* For some reason half of the network settings are not in the network settings. They're in some third party app you have to run from the console. It isn't even linked via an "advanced" button in the gnome settings.

* Gnome's desktop notifications are hilariously subtle. We're talking dark grey window that disappears if you touch it with the mouse and there's no notification history. I ended up fixing the colour to make it red by hacking some CSS. It was a simple 27 step process. Couldn't fix the other issues though.

* Somewhat hilariously if you click a truncated link in a notification, the URL it takes you to will also be truncated!

* Screen capture doesn't work in Wayland. Not that I regularly need to share my screen with coworkers or anything... Fortunately switching to X was easy and doesn't seem to have any downsides at all.

* I haven't done this but multiple coworkers have accidentally uninstalled Gnome while trying to upgrade Python. HN mentality will be to blame them but that is the unthinking response.

* It takes ages to wake up. I sometimes have to absolutely mash escape for about 10 seconds.

* Battery life is of course hilarious.

Never had issues like this with Mac or Windows (though I haven't used Windows laptops really).

Re: Windows 11's default mail client will show ads starting 2024

#113

Post by dist-epoch »

magicalhippo wrote: post #98
firebaze wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just switch to Linux already. It's really there. Some compromises required, sure, but they are already far and between. Keep it for gaming if you need. But give Proton a try first. My almost 75yo dad switched recently. I swear I'm telling the truth: his main complaint was, after buying a new printer, he couldn't find the matching drivers. I told him just to print, and that was that.

If only there existed a viable Remote Desktop alternative for Linux. I use Remote Desktop to log into my home PC when I'm at work or away. No need to have a powerful laptop and no need to worry about laptop getting stolen. Tried all the Linux alternatives (latest round was last year). Yes there are functional remote desktop solutions, where functional means it actually works. But they're not really usable on a day-to…

What about TeamViewer.

Re: Windows 11's default mail client will show ads starting 2024

#114

Post by jwells89 »

fx1994 wrote: post #8

There's Thunderbird, much better solution than mail or outlook.

Thunderbird is alright but I think it's in need of what Firefox was to Mozilla Suite – a lean and mean cross platform IMAP client with a nice UI, and that's it. I don't want an Outlook-style client that's full of things that aren't email (calendar etc).

Re: Windows 11's default mail client will show ads starting 2024

#115

Post by frankjr »

firebaze wrote: post #6
eschneider wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note to self: the market for 3rd party windows mail clients is going to grow next year.

Just switch to Linux already. It's really there. Some compromises required, sure, but they are already far and between. Keep it for gaming if you need. But give Proton a try first. My almost 75yo dad switched recently. I swear I'm telling the truth: his main complaint was, after buying a new printer, he couldn't find the matching drivers. I told him just to print, and that was that.

> Just switch to Linux already. It's really there.

Is it though? A friend of mine bought AMD RX 7800. He went with AMD specifically to make sure Linux compatibility is top notch given that AMD drivers are included in the kernel and developed by AMD developers. The result is that he cannot boot his Arch machine with it until he disconnects his monitor. Seriously. It just hangs forever [0]. Everything is up to date. Tried with NixOS and got same result. That's on top of other performance related problems he's encountered (mostly in Blender). Tried Windows to make sure the card is not at fault and voilà everything works correctly with no issues.

[0] https://i.imgur.com/t6mXPm5.jpg

Re: Windows 11's default mail client will show ads starting 2024

#116

Post by pmontra »

overgard wrote: post #35

How many people actually use a desktop email app? I use Outlook for work (mostly because the web client is awful), but outside of that I always access my email in a browser. Weird decision by Microsoft in my opinion. It seems like the only people that'd bother to setup Windows mail in the first place are power users, and that's the last people you want to piss off with annoying ads.

I do use Thunderbird. My mailbox is a POP3 account. I download mail and move it to folders with per sender filters.

That said, 9,999 other people are about to reply that they use GMail or something like that. Maybe 99,999.

Re: Windows 11's default mail client will show ads starting 2024

#117

Post by hbn »

bananapub wrote: post #109
hbn wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I wasn't tied to Gmail because it means I can't really use any other clients if I want instant notifications. And their official app has ads that look like emails. I assume they must do that on purpose, right? Make their IMAP implementation bad so people will use their clients with ads? I'd kinda hope regulators would step in on something like that for a case like Gmail where they're practically the default em…

> I wish I wasn't tied to Gmail because it means I can't really use any other clients if I want instant notifications. what? it's supported IMAP IDLE for longer than some of the posters in HN have been alive. > I'd kinda hope regulators would step in on something like that for a case like Gmail where they're practically the default email provider for most people. ... you chose to use some random company's domain for…

Look - I don't know much about email standards but I know if I try to use Gmail on the Apple Mail client it doesn't give me notifications. Everyone I've talked to has the same issue, they get a dumping of notifications once per week with every email they got in the past 7 days. No solutions to be found online either, if you have one I'd be more than happy to hear it.

> ... you chose to use some random company's domain for your email address, that's been an obvious problem for thirty years now.

I was 13 when I made the account. I obviously wouldn't have tied so many things to it if I knew what I know now back then. I'll try to be born earlier next time, and then maybe I can buy a house before 2008 and some 90s Apple stocks while I'm at it.

Re: Windows 11's default mail client will show ads starting 2024

#118

Post by foxandmouse »

jwells89 wrote: post #30

One of the things I’ve appreciated a lot about macOS and iOS is that the stock Mail app is focused more on being a good generic email client than it is on trying to sell iCloud or be a profit center. It’s served me very well for the handful of IMAP addresses I use, with exception to Gmail (which has a dodgy IMAP implementation). The Windows Mail client was on its way to becoming a close analogue to Mail.app but I gue…

The only place you'll find ads in macOS is the App Store, in stark contrast to Microsoft, which seems to seize every opportunity to push ads.

Re: Windows 11's default mail client will show ads starting 2024

#119

Post by dudul »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #76
dudul wrote: post #61

I dread the day where my windows 10 machine will automatically upgrade to 11. So far I've been able to decline - even though the "no" button seems to get a bit smaller and better hidden every time. One day I know I'll wake up and it will be windows 11. It will always have been 11. There was no versions before 11.

Part of using windows at this point is learning how to turn off all the bait and switch nonsense and user hostile stuff going on under the hood. There are a lot of programs and scripts out there to turn off telemetry, ads, forced updates and more. Unfortunately it is required to not be at the mercy of your OS updating under you or selling your data behind the scenes.

When I installed my system I literally had to unplug the ethernet to skip the "cloud user" creation.

Maybe I was dumb and missed the "no thank you" button, but it looked like there was no option. Want to create a user, has to be managed online. Thanks and fuck you.

I had to unplug internet, click next, wait 2min for the thing to time out and say "oh well let's create a local user for now we'll try again later". I haven't seen another"try" since but who knows. It probably happened automatically one day as a background task.

Re: Windows 11's default mail client will show ads starting 2024

#120

Post by pmontra »

stalfosknight wrote: post #104

Why do so many Windows users tolerate shit like this while refusing to consider a much better designed platform that is far more respectful of its users like macOS?

Because you can go to a shop and buy a Windows laptop for 300 dollars. No Mac is as cheap as that.

And subjectively the UI of a Mac is worse than Window's. I liked the menu at the top only on the original Mac with the builtin 9" screen. It started to be a bad choice on the next models with a larger separate monitor. And Windows' UI is worse than the customized Gnome desktop I've been using since 2009.

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