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California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

reuters.com

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Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#201

Post by add-sub-mul-div »

hbrav wrote: post #117
ravenstine wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is being able to read a book during your commute without getting assaulted or robbed.

The phenomenon of viewing public transit as somewhere that you'll be assaulted or robbed is an incredible indictment of the US. I don't know how true it is though.

People are swayed by anecdotes and dramatic headlines and politics and look for reasons to be afraid. People don't know how to measure risk in their day to day lives. It's an indictment of something, but not public transportation.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#202

Post by Lonestar1440 »

RC_ITR wrote: post #186
Lonestar1440 wrote: post #120

From my perspective as a person who lives in San Francisco and also drives a LOT (10-20k miles per year, and many small drives within the city): Cruise cars do not perform acceptably. They manage to avoid collisions by driving extremely conservatively, but the way they traverse, say, a left turn against traffic is absurd. They slow everyone down, including emergency vehicles and public transit, by performing far belo…

I agree with what you said, BUT From my perspective as a person who lives in San Francisco and also bikes a LOT: human driver also do not perform acceptably. I counted 14 cars without headlights on after sunset on a 2 mile bike ride yesterday. I counted 5 cars parked in either a bike lane or active traffic. 2 cars took blind rights (no stops) onto Polk from various alleyways. This was a good day, FWIW. Cruises have o…

Yes, Humans are flawed drivers. But that makes them an Excellent baseline, because the last thing we want to do is make things even worse.

I've observed all the things you did (in fact, all of them on Sunday). But I don't do any of them, and you probably wouldn't either if you ever used a car.

I'm comparing self-driving cars to an average Human, who truly does drive acceptably. Over 99% of people drive acceptably. The 2 dudes on I-5 without headlights at dusk are a problem, but there are Hundreds of vehicles in sight driving very safely.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#203

Post by frickinLasers »

tschellenbach wrote: post #107

43k deaths per year due to human drivers. DMV should stop sticking their heads in the sand. https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state... .

Yes, but I think the relevant metric is deaths per 100 million miles driven. Self-driving cars haven't even traveled 100 million miles.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#204

Post by [deleted] »

mips_avatar wrote: post #96

The incident last month where that woman got dragged and pinned by the Cruise vehicle was pretty disconcerting. The initial collision wasn't the fault of the cruise vehicle (another vehicle hit her pushing her into the cruise vehicle and fled the scene), but the cruise vehicle then proceeded to try to "pull over" and just dragged this woman and rolled over her leg. Weird situation but definitely something made much m…

[deleted]

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#205

Post by hindsightbias »

eastbound wrote: post #105
carbocation wrote: post #79

This is just anecdote, but having taken trips in both Waymo and Cruise in SF, I feel very comfortable in Waymo: it drives carefully but confidently. It alerts me when cyclists are near when I'm getting out. It navigates coned-off work areas. Cruise required a lot of (remote) human intervention during my trips.

We were sold self-driving cars as safer than humans.

They are. Not one has ever tried to harm me, and I encounter them daily. I can think offhand of a dozen human drivers, motorcyclists and cyclist who have.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#206

Post by HDThoreaun »

farnsworth wrote: post #175
HDThoreaun wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same mistake gun control advocates who want to take away guns make. Yes, Americans want to reduce death. But they want freedom more.

When transit is good you can ride it wherever you want to, and you can do it drunk. That's my freedom

I do not own a car. Love living in a transit forward city. But I understand the reality, that is not a real solution for most Americans who live in suburbs where good transit is just not possible due to the original layout. Instead of trying to shoehorn a solution that isn't practical we should focus on ones that potentially are.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#207

Post by mvdtnz »

moffkalast wrote: post #168
tempsy wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A dark colored Nissan Sentra was stopped in the adjacent lane to the left of the AV. When the light turned green, the Nissan Sentra and the AV entered the intersection. Against a red light, a pedestrian entered the crosswalk on the opposite side of Market Street across from the vehicles, passed completely through the AV’s lane of travel, then stopped mid-crosswalk in front of the Nissan Sentra. The Nissan Sentra the…

I mean talk about an edge case, I doubt the software really considers "have pedestrians literally thrown at the car" situations all that much.

An obstruction in front of a vehicle is hardly an edge case.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#208

Post by Waterluvian »

Lonestar1440 wrote: post #120

From my perspective as a person who lives in San Francisco and also drives a LOT (10-20k miles per year, and many small drives within the city): Cruise cars do not perform acceptably. They manage to avoid collisions by driving extremely conservatively, but the way they traverse, say, a left turn against traffic is absurd. They slow everyone down, including emergency vehicles and public transit, by performing far belo…

Are these autonomous vehicles so littered throughout California that you run into them weekly?

I realize I don’t have a real concrete sense of just how many of these there are. Like is this a whole thing already?

Edit: thanks for the responses…. Good gravy…

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#209

Post by RC_ITR »

epa wrote: post #198
RC_ITR wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with what you said, BUT From my perspective as a person who lives in San Francisco and also bikes a LOT: human driver also do not perform acceptably. I counted 14 cars without headlights on after sunset on a 2 mile bike ride yesterday. I counted 5 cars parked in either a bike lane or active traffic. 2 cars took blind rights (no stops) onto Polk from various alleyways. This was a good day, FWIW. Cruises have o…

So you observed 21 cars with issues out of the 1000 you saw, a marginal hit rate.

Yeah - same thing as only 30k /300mn Americans dying in car accidents per year, right?

A rounding error?

The point is human drivers aren't a proportions problem. It's that any unsafe driver is bad.

Adding more safe drivers doesn't lower the risk of unsafe drivers, even if they're a smaller proportion of drivers.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#210

Post by kaycebasques »

carbocation wrote: post #79

This is just anecdote, but having taken trips in both Waymo and Cruise in SF, I feel very comfortable in Waymo: it drives carefully but confidently. It alerts me when cyclists are near when I'm getting out. It navigates coned-off work areas. Cruise required a lot of (remote) human intervention during my trips.

Does Cruise have a screen like Waymo that shows you what the car "sees"?

Context: When sitting in the backseat of a Waymo, there is a tablet-sized screen that shows you all the cars nearby. And humans! On one of my first trips (at night), it took me a while to figure out what the white circles were. And then I looked over and saw people in the shadows! It was honestly kinda spooky that the car was much more aware of nearby humans then I was...

Disclosure: Googler, and a big fan of Waymo

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