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California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

reuters.com

161–170 of 1001 posts

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#161

The incident last month where that woman got dragged and pinned by the Cruise vehicle was pretty disconcerting. The initial collision wasn't the fault of the cruise vehicle (another vehicle hit her pushing her into the cruise vehicle and fled the scene), but the cruise vehicle then proceeded to try to "pull over" and just dragged this woman and rolled over her leg. Weird situation but definitely something made much m…

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I'm not too familiar with the details here, but probably hit the brakes and stop ASAP? If there could be someone under my car I wouldn't keep driving to "pull over safely".

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#162
post #81

TxDMV needs to follow this. Fuck these companies. They are testing their garbage in dense urban areas. Too many times their vehicles just stop in the middle of the road. If it rains, vehicle stops. If the light is out, vehicle panics and stops. Somebody puts a cone on the hood, vehicle panics. If a single variable not accounted for in their algorithms shifts beyond expected range, it fucking panics. So much money dum…

Do you think the potential future where humans are freed from doing anything for their transportation (no driving, no pedaling, no steering, no danger, no waiting in traffic, etc) is worth some short term pain while we develop the tech? Was the pain and suffering during the industrial revolution days that have led to our current high tech world worth it? (I'm not just asking this rhetorically, I'm really interested i…

> Do you think the potential future where humans are freed from doing anything for their transportation (no driving, no pedaling, no steering, no danger, no waiting in traffic, etc) is worth some short term pain while we develop the tech? Was the pain and suffering during the industrial revolution days that have led to our current high tech world worth it?

Or more succinctly: "You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs. Sorry, eggs [regular people].

Ends justify the means thinking leads to some dark places (e.g. what kind of medical-technological progress would we be able to make if it was possible to do testing on humans like we do on animals?).

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#163

This is just anecdote, but having taken trips in both Waymo and Cruise in SF, I feel very comfortable in Waymo: it drives carefully but confidently. It alerts me when cyclists are near when I'm getting out. It navigates coned-off work areas. Cruise required a lot of (remote) human intervention during my trips.

I have a friend who interviewed at Waymo to be a safety driver. He told me they have a human at command central monitoring the car and the safety driver, talking back and forth. I see no reason why they would remove the human monitor after no longer using safety drivers. For liability reasons at least. My point is I'm not sure Waymo cars can actually be considered self- driving since they have a remote human standing by to take over.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#164

Will California ban all human drivers next? After all, the pedestrian was first hit by a human driver, and was probably the but for cause.

No, because fixing all humans is impossible.

Fixing all Cruise vehicles so that this doesn't happen might be hard, but it isn't impossible.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#165
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this just a troll comment? - Zero traffic fatalities would be nice - Reduced congestion/traffic, people can get to places faster - Never having to worry about parking again - No more need for cars parked on streets, more space & safer for cyclists and pedestrians - Reduced income requirements for those that need access to a car There are countless benefits. The transition period to get there will be a little tumul…

Except... They won't reduce congestion and traffic, because people won't have to drive they'll be OK with being on the road longer. You just hang out in your living room on wheels. Parking... Where are the cars going to park exactly? How far from the restaurants and homes etc? Won't the extra trips from/to parking lots create more traffic? Reduced income requirements, that's a new one to me. These cars will have more…

> 50%+ of car trips are less than three miles... as a society what we need is a way to make those trips without cars.

then you've only fixed 50% of car trips, and much less than 50% of vehicle miles and probably not done much at all for highway deaths.

all the urban bike infrastructure in the world isn't going to do much for rural and interstate problems.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#166
post #70

So much is discussed about self-driving car safety because the implications are really big but also uncomfortable. However, I always get stuck on how little enforcement there is for human drivers who habitually break driving laws and cause dangerous situations. DUIs are one thing sure but honestly most drivers who are bad and dangerous are sober and face no consequences for reckless behavior. Is there something speci…

Why the down votes? This seems like a reasonable discussion to be had, unless you're a binary thinker and think that anyone raising a point about humans must be secretly, implicitly arguing that cars should be able to do whatever they want.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#167

Will California ban all human drivers next? After all, the pedestrian was first hit by a human driver, and was probably the but for cause.

I think that a suspension pending investigation and possible remediation is appropriate.

I realize assuming this is the California DMV's line of reasoning is speculation, but this sentence from Cruise's own public statement on the event really does it for me (emphasis mine):

> The AV detected a collision, bringing the vehicle to a stop; then attempted to pull over to avoid causing further road safety issues, pulling the individual forward approximately 20 feet.

The tricky thing about these vehicles' control software is that it has absolutely no judgment or common sense. That's really on display here, where the vehicle immediately goes into a canned program instead of following a course of action that takes into account all the details of the situation in which it found itself, not just the ones that its creators had anticipated.

That doesn't necessarily mean that testing self-driving cars on the roads is inherently irresponsible, but it does mean that the ground rules for how we manage such programs need to be tailored to the situation. What we have here is a situation where a rather nasty software defect has been discovered. We can assume that this defect is present in all of the vehicles Cruise is operating on public roadways. It is therefore reasonable and prudent to temporarily suspend autonomous testing operations on public roadways pending analysis and remediation.

Because, let me emphasize again, TESTING. Pausing to analyze and iterate when you find problems is an essential part of testing. It's arguably the main thing that distinguishes testing from just YOLOing shit into production.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#168
post #113

Link to Cruise review of incident: https://getcruise.com/news/blog/2023/a-detailed-review-of-th...

"A dark colored Nissan Sentra was stopped in the adjacent lane to the left of the AV. When the light turned green, the Nissan Sentra and the AV entered the intersection. Against a red light, a pedestrian entered the crosswalk on the opposite side of Market Street across from the vehicles, passed completely through the AV’s lane of travel, then stopped mid-crosswalk in front of the Nissan Sentra. The Nissan Sentra the…

I mean talk about an edge case, I doubt the software really considers "have pedestrians literally thrown at the car" situations all that much.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#169
post #113

Link to Cruise review of incident: https://getcruise.com/news/blog/2023/a-detailed-review-of-th...

"A dark colored Nissan Sentra was stopped in the adjacent lane to the left of the AV. When the light turned green, the Nissan Sentra and the AV entered the intersection. Against a red light, a pedestrian entered the crosswalk on the opposite side of Market Street across from the vehicles, passed completely through the AV’s lane of travel, then stopped mid-crosswalk in front of the Nissan Sentra. The Nissan Sentra the…

Have you driven in San Francisco or basically any large US city? If cars had to stop like that to give extra space for a jaywalker that had exited the path of travel, someone would rear end the AV, or at the very least the driving experience would be very jarring. If we wanted to legitimize this case then probably large areas of downtown in cities should be redefined to be free-for-all traffic with low speed limits.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#170

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Who needs steam machines? Progress is always good IMO.

Defining progress isn't that simple.

Self-driving cars isn't progress. Larger and heavier cars isn't progress. Cars with insane eye-searing LED headlights isn't progress.

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