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UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

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Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#81

Post by lmm »

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #75
bluescrn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, when groups of activists surveil dissenters/wrongthinkers on social media, actively make lists of them and try to get them fired or worse for their speech/thoughts, many still defend that as 'perfectly reasonable consequences of unacceptable speech'

These groups can't secretly compel telecom companies to record or give you a copy of all your communications. It's not surveillance if it's public, it's sousveillance.

> These groups can't secretly compel telecom companies to record or give you a copy of all your communications.

In practice they can. The method they use isn't the force of law, but the result is the same.

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#82

Post by itronitron »

kypro wrote: post #69
happytiger wrote: post #8

Remember this is “keeping files on posts that criticise education policies” — tracking political dissenters who don’t like the government’s policies but have done nothing wrong or illegal. While we’re off focusing on encryption debates and the online safety bill, the UK government isn’t waiting around. Just what is “accredited technology”? As defined in that bill, and how much does encryption play a role when monitor…

I'll be more specific about what I suspect the actual intentions are behind the online safety bill. A few months back the UK charged five retired police officers with hate crimes because they had a private WhatsApp group in which the police found content racist[1] comments about the Duchess of Sussex (Meghan Markle). In the UK it is illegal to say something online that could be considered hateful. But the issue is th…

Wow, I didn't realize just how messed up the UK is. Whatever happened to the childhood axiom, sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never hurt me?

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#83

Post by [deleted] »

oooyay wrote: post #23
bluescrn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, when groups of activists surveil dissenters/wrongthinkers on social media, actively make lists of them and try to get them fired or worse for their speech/thoughts, many still defend that as 'perfectly reasonable consequences of unacceptable speech'

Everyone across the spectrum does it. It's a way of reinforcing the power of a particular political camp. There's a way to fix that though, make it very difficult to fire people. Then companies will need to be incredibly clear about what conditions they're choosing to terminate under.

[deleted]

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#84

Post by superb_dev »

lmm wrote: post #81
tenebrisalietum wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These groups can't secretly compel telecom companies to record or give you a copy of all your communications. It's not surveillance if it's public, it's sousveillance.

> These groups can't secretly compel telecom companies to record or give you a copy of all your communications. In practice they can. The method they use isn't the force of law, but the result is the same.

Which telecom company specifically is releasing people's records?

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#85

Post by itronitron »

frozenlettuce wrote: post #73
kypro wrote: post #61

> The scope and depth of this surveillance has led to growing skepticism about the Department’s priorities and resource allocation. Lol. That about sums it up. Whenever a dystopian UK government surveillance thread makes it to the front page of HN I generally try to remind people of two things: 1. This will not make headlines in the UK. 2. People in the UK do not care about privacy. The fact that the person they spok…

The thing is, it is much more confortable for government officials to run after low-level citizens than fighting actual crime. If you paint a scary enough picture ("encryption enables exploitation of children!"), the public might even be more afraid of people those "agitators" than gang wars or robbery.

I used to think that the general public is safer when there is a dangerous criminal element around because the state will focus it's policing on the criminal activity and leave most of the public alone. But if the state is just too risk averse to police hardened criminals then the general public is at risk.

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#86

Post by deadfish »

hermitcrab wrote: post #57
pydry wrote: post #17

Just like Russia. I wish the UK would spend a bit less effort trying to provoke and fight Russia to the death and a bit more effort trying not to become Russia. I also wish that wasn't a controversial opinion.

Yes. The direction and velocity of travel is very worrying. We've already lost a lot of our rights for peaceful protest. Inconveniencing people with your protest? That's the whole point of protesting isn't it? Fuck the Conservative party. I hope they are destroyed at the next election.

No need for hope. At this point surely it is a given?

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#87

Post by Belopolye »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #34
bradley13 wrote: post #20

Wrongthink must be stamped out! Seriously, what kind of dystopia are UK politicians trying to create? Also, that's a lot of tax money that could, I dunno, be used to improve the schools?

> Seriously, what kind of dystopia are UK politicians trying to create? One where they constantly talk about conservative values of freedom while creating the most oppressive anti-protest laws and government surveillance in the western world.

The argument that I often read is that protecting democracy and democratic values often requires methods contrary to those democratic values (or not, as long as a democracy does it).

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#88

Post by potatopatch »

teddyh wrote: post #65
bradley13 wrote: post #20

Wrongthink must be stamped out! Seriously, what kind of dystopia are UK politicians trying to create? Also, that's a lot of tax money that could, I dunno, be used to improve the schools?

There’s a reason that 1984, V for Vendetta, Judge Dredd, etc. are all created by people in the UK.

Reading the article, I was actually thinking of Winston's girlfriend Julia and how wonderfully well she would do at Ofsted.

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#89

Post by krisoft »

lmm wrote: post #81
tenebrisalietum wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These groups can't secretly compel telecom companies to record or give you a copy of all your communications. It's not surveillance if it's public, it's sousveillance.

> These groups can't secretly compel telecom companies to record or give you a copy of all your communications. In practice they can. The method they use isn't the force of law, but the result is the same.

> In practice they can.

How would a group of private citizens get a copy of all communications of an other private citizen?

Are there any documented cases of this ever happening?

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#90

Post by hermitcrab »

deadfish wrote: post #86
hermitcrab wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The direction and velocity of travel is very worrying. We've already lost a lot of our rights for peaceful protest. Inconveniencing people with your protest? That's the whole point of protesting isn't it? Fuck the Conservative party. I hope they are destroyed at the next election.

No need for hope. At this point surely it is a given?

The UK Labour Party have a long history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. And Starmer, while a much better human being than any of the current Tory leadership, appears to be lacking in political instincts.
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