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UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

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Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#71

Post by robertlagrant »

notahacker wrote: post #42
bluescrn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, when groups of activists surveil dissenters/wrongthinkers on social media, actively make lists of them and try to get them fired or worse for their speech/thoughts, many still defend that as 'perfectly reasonable consequences of unacceptable speech'

Yes, because obviously the only possible options are a state surveillance program to flag up any teaching assistants who criticise any aspect of government policy and teaching bureaucracy, or the sort of "free speech absolutism" that concludes that literally nothing a teacher could say could ever render them unsuitable for a teaching job. No middle ground is possible.

Good to get the sarcastic straw man out of the way, so we can get back to the actual conversation.

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#72

Post by robertlagrant »

partitioned wrote: post #51
bluescrn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, when groups of activists surveil dissenters/wrongthinkers on social media, actively make lists of them and try to get them fired or worse for their speech/thoughts, many still defend that as 'perfectly reasonable consequences of unacceptable speech'

But that activism is free speech itself always funny when the free speech absolutist gets mad when people use free speech to cancel someone

People conspiring to raise up hatred of an individual, and people of the same mind in HR departments green lighting the acquiesence to that hatred, is the problem. Someone shouting a swear word at me while killing me is unpleasant, but I'll allow it. It's the killing that's the problem.

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#73

Post by frozenlettuce »

kypro wrote: post #61

> The scope and depth of this surveillance has led to growing skepticism about the Department’s priorities and resource allocation. Lol. That about sums it up. Whenever a dystopian UK government surveillance thread makes it to the front page of HN I generally try to remind people of two things: 1. This will not make headlines in the UK. 2. People in the UK do not care about privacy. The fact that the person they spok…

The thing is, it is much more confortable for government officials to run after low-level citizens than fighting actual crime. If you paint a scary enough picture ("encryption enables exploitation of children!"), the public might even be more afraid of people those "agitators" than gang wars or robbery.

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#74

Post by IshKebab »

brnt wrote: post #6
leosanchez wrote: post #5

Wow. UK surveillance is reaching Black Mirror levels.

CCTV capital of the world for a decade or two was an indication perhaps.

Anyone that brings up this factoid instantly gives away the true depth of their knowledge.

The US and China have over twice as many CCTV cameras per person than the UK does.

https://www.precisesecurity.com/articles/top-10-countries-by...

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#75

Post by tenebrisalietum »

bluescrn wrote: post #12
happytiger wrote: post #8

Remember this is “keeping files on posts that criticise education policies” — tracking political dissenters who don’t like the government’s policies but have done nothing wrong or illegal. While we’re off focusing on encryption debates and the online safety bill, the UK government isn’t waiting around. Just what is “accredited technology”? As defined in that bill, and how much does encryption play a role when monitor…

Meanwhile, when groups of activists surveil dissenters/wrongthinkers on social media, actively make lists of them and try to get them fired or worse for their speech/thoughts, many still defend that as 'perfectly reasonable consequences of unacceptable speech'

These groups can't secretly compel telecom companies to record or give you a copy of all your communications. It's not surveillance if it's public, it's sousveillance.

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#76

Post by mellosouls »

OP is summary link to original Guardian article, which itself is an update of the original from a couple of weeks ago:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/sep/30/revealed-u...

None of the articles seem to have proof or clarity of the claims in the form of actual documents and direct quotes from them. Not to say they don't exist, it's clear they do from the witness statements, but there is no detail to support the claim of some policy of active monitoring.

This seems like a serious overreach of government so the lack of meat here is curious.

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#77

Post by rahimnathwani »

nxobject wrote: post #21

Note that people requesting information collected on themselves was enabled by the GDPR's information-related-to-me provisions, as retained after Brexit. I look forward to the Conservatives dismantling it after realizing that it's used against them.

Those provisions were introduced by the Data Protection Act 1984. At the time the legislation was introduced and passed, the Conservatives were in power.

Search for 'Part III' and read the first item here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/35/enacted

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#78

Post by none_to_remain »

injidup wrote: post #47

What one posts on public social media sites is public . Is this surveillance?

I think it counts as surveillance when it's published material, but surveillance of public material does not seem so troublesome to me.

For ex. if these teachers had instead published their complaints in old-fashioned letters-to-the-editor in print newspapers, I don't think anyone would be complaining that the government reads the newspapers. You could still complain about the chilling of dissent and the waste of resources.

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#79

Post by mandmandam »

vfclists wrote: post #60
injidup wrote: post #47

What one posts on public social media sites is public . Is this surveillance?

If it is targeted, tracked, stored and analyzed it is surveillance.

Don't forget 'acted on'.

They're using this data to make sure people who criticise them can't acquire influence.

And it's all in secret, short of canny SAR's.

People can question if this is technically surveillance, but in context, that question is basically misdirection.

Re: UK government surveilling social media of teaching assistants

#80

Post by ryandrake »

none_to_remain wrote: post #78
injidup wrote: post #47

What one posts on public social media sites is public . Is this surveillance?

I think it counts as surveillance when it's published material, but surveillance of public material does not seem so troublesome to me. For ex. if these teachers had instead published their complaints in old-fashioned letters-to-the-editor in print newspapers, I don't think anyone would be complaining that the government reads the newspapers. You could still complain about the chilling of dissent and the waste of res…

But, posting publicly to social media is almost exactly like a letter to the editor. You send your message to a company, the company reviews it, and then usually publishes it publicly for all to see.

I would not feel "chilled" if someone (an employer, government, or whoever) trawled through my HN posts and made some kind of judgment or took action over what I post. I would expect it. It's public after all. I certainly moderate what I say here knowing this (maybe that's the chilling effect you mention?)

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