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Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

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Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#321

Post by rayiner »

redserk wrote: post #317
anon291 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The west used to be much more collectivist. Christianity as it's been practiced for most of history is a collective religion. The rise of individualism corresponds to the rise of atheism and agnosticism and 'nones' in the west.

Are you able to back this up? American individualism has existed for multiple generations, well before the rise of acceptance for atheism/agnosticism/“Nones”.

Americans have always had an individualist streak, fueled by Protestant Christianity, the cultural influence of Appalachia, and cultural diversity. The communitarian parts of Christianity held that somewhat in check. But as even that falls away, america has become hyper-individualized and morality has become almost completely personalized.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#322

Post by perryizgr8 »

bloopernova wrote: post #5

America is moving the other way because all the wealth and power has been sucked up by the 0.1% and a large majority are too tired, stressed, and poor. Everything stems from this. Too much wealth tied up in the health insurance scam to switch to single payer, so people stay bound to their employment, and they can't afford time off or visits to the doctor because nothing is completely covered anymore. Too much wealth…

I don't think this matters at all. The poorest in America are above average on the global level when it comes to quality of life. Yet the actual poorest citizens of the world seem to have no problems staying married and raising children.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#323

Post by xctr94 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #310
ergl wrote: post #297

As someone from Europe, I can't understand the inability of mainstream US culture and media to disentangle marriage from long term stable relationships. Take this paragraph from the article: > More women are deciding to have children and also remain single. Almost half of all babies born in the U.S. were born to unmarried women in 2019, a dramatic increase since 1960, when only 5% of births were to unmarried mothers.…

"In my opinion looking into what's driving that difference between couples in the US and Europe would be worth a discussion on its own." The problem is especially acute in the underclass, and American underclass differs a lot from European underclass. For example, a lot of the Western European poor are Muslims (in countries that keep the relevant statistics, Muslim immigrants and their descendants tend to score below…

[flagged]

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#324

Post by xctr94 »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #271
danielschonfeld wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This question is answered in the interview. She is saying that a household with a stable long lasting relationship is what’s driving these better outcomes. She’s also saying that in America marriage (unfortunately) seems to be the only way to keep people together for a long while (long enough for a child to not experience a parade of parents by the time they are 15 according to the article). In my personal opinion. I…

U.S., Denmark, Sweden, and Finland all have roughly the same divorce rates. Source: https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/divorce-rate-by-count...

You’re comparing against some of the highest rates in Europe; possibly because the Nordic countries value that same individuality that GP mentioned?

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#325

Post by xctr94 »

dangus wrote: post #182
mensetmanusman wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has the same fertility rate as Japan.

Sweden is a better example. Incredible parental support, high birth rates compared to the rest of Europe. (Personally, I don’t think high birth rates are a good thing. The long term survival of our species depends on curtailing global population. But that’s a different subject.)

Germany has very good support for parents, and has been working hard to reverse the downwards fertility trend. Some progress is showing. (Note that I don’t disagree that Sweden is doing better.)

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#326

Post by 16mb »

ekanes wrote: post #318
MandieD wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong, socially-enforced taboos against alcohol and tobacco consumption are probably a major driver of the longevity difference.

And a small community of actual friends. Friendship matters re longevity. It's worth working towards.

I assume it’s a bit more likely to do with the lack of junk foods and increased physical activity.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#327

Post by inglor_cz »

xctr94 wrote: post #323
inglor_cz wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In my opinion looking into what's driving that difference between couples in the US and Europe would be worth a discussion on its own." The problem is especially acute in the underclass, and American underclass differs a lot from European underclass. For example, a lot of the Western European poor are Muslims (in countries that keep the relevant statistics, Muslim immigrants and their descendants tend to score below…

[flagged]

Interestingly, I tend to get more downvotes when I criticize either China or the EU. Not always, but pretty often.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#328

Post by achenet »

ACow_Adonis wrote: post #199
Balgair wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Widows/ers would also be a good control.

we have a concept in welfare and income stats called equivalisation. this is where we try to control for the positive material externalities that come from sharing resources among people. you dont have to buy two of everything if you share, it's cheaper to add a room than obtain a whole house and duplicate bathrooms + kitchens etc. widows would fall afoul of this (in the sense that they've lived with that advantage f…

I think that having two adult role models to give a child love, and to serve as an example of 'how to have good interactions with others' is also quite important.

I was a child of divorce, and honestly it was a bit traumatizing. My parents were (and still are) often quite angry, mean and dishonest. They spent literally over $100,000 on legal fees, but "didn't have the money" to buy me a guitar.

So despite being (relatively) well off, coming from a violent, if not outright abusive at times household, suffering from parental neglect... yeah honestly that may have contributed to things like "skipping class to do drugs".

I think there's a lot of socializing that can happen in a functional two parent household that doesn't happen in single parent households, and this may be an additional advantage, in addition to equivalisation + social transfers/safety nets.

Plus as previous comments have said, if your parent has the trait "functional, responsible adult capable of having healthy relationships", that probably really increases your outcomes.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#329

Post by achenet »

xctr94 wrote: post #324
throwaway2037 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

U.S., Denmark, Sweden, and Finland all have roughly the same divorce rates. Source: https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/divorce-rate-by-count...

You’re comparing against some of the highest rates in Europe; possibly because the Nordic countries value that same individuality that GP mentioned?

from my admittedly limited knowledge of the Nordics, they are much more collectivist than Americans.

For example, Swedes have it drilled into their heads from an early age that "everyone deserves a home". This is not the case in America, where "poor people deserve to be poor because they're lazy, cut welfare, universal health care is socialism" is an acceptable statement, and in fact the basically party line for one of the two major political parties.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#330

Post by chongli »

christophilus wrote: post #22
bloopernova wrote: post #5

America is moving the other way because all the wealth and power has been sucked up by the 0.1% and a large majority are too tired, stressed, and poor. Everything stems from this. Too much wealth tied up in the health insurance scam to switch to single payer, so people stay bound to their employment, and they can't afford time off or visits to the doctor because nothing is completely covered anymore. Too much wealth…

I’m not sure everything stems from this. Marriage was not just for the wealthy and nobles in the Middle Ages, or in the 1800s or in subsaharan Africa, etc. If it’s a matter of relative wealth disparity, there have been plenty of eras (probably the majority of recorded human history) in which the kings and nobles had a similar wealth gap to their poorest married subjects as we see today between the 1% and the 99%. I’m…

Marriage was not just for the wealthy and nobles in the Middle Ages, or in the 1800s or in subsaharan Africa, etc.

In the Middle Ages, children were an investment. You fed them and clothed them and raised them for just a few years before they started to pay off. As soon as they were physically able to walk and listen to instructions, children began to work, usually on the family farm.

This human capital that a couple could grow themselves made marriage and child-rearing a highly profitable activity. It led to generational wealth, which marriage existed to secure and apportion.

This is no longer true in modern city life. Children are a luxury good, not capital. They don’t produce any wealth for their parents. They simply consume enormous resources until they move out and start their own independent lives.

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