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Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

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Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#191

Post by nec4b »

kthejoker2 wrote: post #123
nec4b wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Everything stems from this. And how do you explain how very poor countries where the top 1% have wealth comparable to wealthy American peers and 99% of the country has less income American middle class had 100 years ago and they have no problems with marriages?

What rights do women have in those country? Can they vote? Drive? Get abortion? Get birth control? Do they have marital rape laws? Domestic abuse laws? Do they have no fault divorce laws? How do they handle common law property? Custody laws? Parental rights? What education do they provide to young women? What institutions do they have supporting female financial independence? What role does organized religion and spe…

So in short I guess you agree not everything stems from wealth inequality.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#192

Post by oasisaimlessly »

corethree wrote: post #187
danielschonfeld wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This question is answered in the interview. She is saying that a household with a stable long lasting relationship is what’s driving these better outcomes. She’s also saying that in America marriage (unfortunately) seems to be the only way to keep people together for a long while (long enough for a child to not experience a parade of parents by the time they are 15 according to the article). In my personal opinion. I…

Yes hyper individuality is part of it. The other part of it is gender equality. For most of human civilization genders were not equal so both sexes evolved traits that are also unequal. The most glaring trait responsible for lack of marriage is female hypergamy. Previously women being of generally unequal/lower status then men and overall a smaller pool of candidates (no online dating) would be forced to be more egal…

One of your 20%'s was probably intended to be 80%.

That aside, yeah; we live in an interesting time. Sadly, technological progress, equality, and monogamy are all positively correlated, so despite some acceleration of natural selection, this is surely a net negative for society.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#193

Post by pleoxy »

hirundo wrote: post #82
pleoxy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't buy a marriage. If you try you are doing it wrong. Finances are a component of marriage, not the driver.

Finance used to be the driver of marriage, and now that it is less so there are fewer marriages.

Till layoff do us part.

How could I miss that it's fundamentally part of everyone's martial vows?? /S

Marriage is about love, companionship, and children. Particularly because of children there will always be a significant economic component. But it's not the driver, it's a supporting component.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#194

Post by pixl97 »

ghusto wrote: post #109

> Kearney's argument that children who grow up in unmarried households are fighting the odds has progressives miffed and accusing Kearney of stigmatizing single mothers I find this attitude applies to everything people don't want to hear. Anything that requires real change, effort, and difficulty seems to be met with anger and attack. It's so much easier to follow the accepted easy road of ignorance. > "I'm not prior…

The issue I have with your take on this is one of, most likely, reverse causality.

I may be making a bad guess, but if I had to I feel I would get the "If these women would just stay married like a traditional relationship demands, then all these problems go away" answer from you.

Now, I'll also make an assumption that you are also going to have a hard time admitting that this is a multi-generational problem caused by male lead institutions treating women like second class citizens where they have massively unequal power. Add in a little equality and you can no longer treat your partner like an optionless slave.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#195

Post by nec4b »

lapcat wrote: post #113
nec4b wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> In the past that you're talking about, women were not allowed to be independent, i.e., own property or obtain jobs that could support a family. That is maybe half true or not true at all. Women could own property and could be somewhat independent. Queen Elisabeth owned a whole country in the 16th century. In general not only women but men as well had a duty to their families and had to do what their parents demand…

> Queen Elisabeth owned a whole country in the 16th century. That's one women, and a strange example to cite, because my comment was in response to a discussion about the disparity of wealth ("kings and nobles had a similar wealth gap to their poorest married subjects as we see today between the 1% and the 99%). Obviously, queens have no trouble raising successful children, but that doesn't help anyone else in societ…

>> That's one women, and a strange example to cite

Why? She an example of a very well known women completely in charge of a future empire in the 16th century. I thought it was clear there were also untold numbers of ordinary women who were also completely in charge of their own households from ancient times till modern age. It is kind of hard to give an example of a woman nobody would know.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#196

Post by mvncleaninst »

ndriscoll wrote: post #167
Spivak wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't get it, maternity leave and socialized childcare is the devil talking. The downfall of society is because the liberal agenda to brainwash our our women and kids, the former with feminism making them think they can do things other then be homemakers, and the latter because those families with working women have to send their kids to childcare where they're taught collectivism, normalized sexual deviancy, and…

People might not feel that way if you didn't belittle homemakers (or do we need movements to let people know they can do things other than be doctors/lawyers/whatever profession you view as high status?) A more equitable solution than socialized childcare that recognizes that homemaker is a valuable job that lots of women (50% of those with children) would prefer to do would be to increase the refundable child tax cr…

> A more equitable solution than socialized childcare that recognizes that homemaker is a valuable job

It isn't a valuable job, economically speaking. It's an anachronism and essentially a luxury for couples where one parent makes enough to support the entire household. Not only this, but it essentially puts all of the pressure on the working parent to economically hold up the household

The cases where it economically makes sense are practically nonexistent in 2023

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#197

Post by pixl97 »

jncfhnb wrote: post #176
theduder99 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that study's numbers make no sense. Looks like a hit job on southern conservatives. Try this: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/divorce-statist...

Your link states that evangelicals have the highest divorce rate out of any religion. Further, southern states do generally experience more divorce than areas like New England and CA.

Growing up in a southern evangelical environment I can say anecdotally this is no surprise. When one side of a partnership considers themselves their peers better it leads to a path that ends in divorce.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#198

Post by corethree »

oasisaimlessly wrote: post #192
corethree wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes hyper individuality is part of it. The other part of it is gender equality. For most of human civilization genders were not equal so both sexes evolved traits that are also unequal. The most glaring trait responsible for lack of marriage is female hypergamy. Previously women being of generally unequal/lower status then men and overall a smaller pool of candidates (no online dating) would be forced to be more egal…

One of your 20%'s was probably intended to be 80%. That aside, yeah; we live in an interesting time. Sadly, technological progress, equality, and monogamy are all positively correlated, so despite some acceleration of natural selection, this is surely a net negative for society.

> One of your 20%'s was probably intended to be 80%.

corrected, thanks.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#199

Post by ACow_Adonis »

Balgair wrote: post #147
beej71 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to see a control on this. Is there a group of people who thought they were married, but by bureaucratic snafu actually weren't? Did they have different outcomes than people who were really married?

Widows/ers would also be a good control.

we have a concept in welfare and income stats called equivalisation.

this is where we try to control for the positive material externalities that come from sharing resources among people. you dont have to buy two of everything if you share, it's cheaper to add a room than obtain a whole house and duplicate bathrooms + kitchens etc.

widows would fall afoul of this (in the sense that they've lived with that advantage for most of their lives), as well as obtain a likely wealth effect from inheritance, but it wouldn't surprise me if the entirity or majority of the marriage effect is largely just a restatement of equivalisation + social transfers/safety nets.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#200

Post by ACow_Adonis »

Retric wrote: post #2

Is it that marriage itself is beneficial or that people capable of maintaining a relationship make better parents? Divorce is significantly more common for bipolar, paranoid, and schizophrenic people for example. So I think we need to look at widows or something to control for those kinds of issues.

I know Australia would provide a psuedo-natural experiment, because of the family laws effectively making de-facto relationships legally more or less equivalent of actual marriage.
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