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New Requirements to Travel to Europe

travel-europe.europa.eu

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Re: New Requirements to Travel to Europe

#41

Post by orwin »

ginko wrote: post #18
vr46 wrote: post #12

I think this is because of the sketchy way in which passports for various tax havens, Caribbean countries, etc (not mutually exclusive) have been sold and bought and those passports allowed visa-free access to the EU. The corruption in those countries puts the EU borders at risk, hence these new rules. Sauce: https://www.occrp.org/en/dominica-passports-of-the-caribbean...

It's a tit-for-tat response to ESTA.

It's way cheaper and dure 50% longuer, so i don't know.

Imho it's just another McKinsey idea.

How i envision the discussion:

""" - Most of our illegal immigrants entered legally within our borders, quick find us a new revolutionnary idea!

- Hey, we have this ETIAS idea. bla bla.... .... bla bla... So it's nothing at all like ESTA at all (two hour presentation)

- Nice, here's 5 million """

Re: New Requirements to Travel to Europe

#42

Post by setgree »

infotainment wrote: post #32

For those who don't know, the US requires every foreign visitor to get approved for entry via ESTA, which is basically a visa in every conceivable way except that they don't call it one. It's also essentially identical to ETIAS, the system mentioned in this article. IMO, ESTA is and has always been always a blatant violation of the Visa Wavier treaty, so it's not unreasonable for Europe to respond in kind.

The fact that the US did it first doesn’t make it reasonable. Both policies can be bad on their own terms, and either way, the costs will almost entirely be borne by people who had nothing to do with drafting the US policy in the first place.

Re: New Requirements to Travel to Europe

#43

Post by cogogo »

Our children are US citizens and Spanish citizens and we live in the US. When we book flights to Spain to visit family we always use their US passport details to ensure we aren’t denied boarding returning home due to lack of an ESTA. I can already imagine the inverse and an over-zealous ticket or gate agent denying boarding to Spain because of no ETIAS and not accepting the physical Spanish passport because it’s not on the electronic reservation.

Re: New Requirements to Travel to Europe

#44

Post by askonomm »

RandomLensman wrote: post #28
askonomm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like mentioned in another reply here, Germany is quite outdated when it comes to these things, and I wouldn't consider Germany a modern country (by northern European standards).

There is just no desire in Germany to go there. That said, why is Estonia still a net EU receiver of funds then?

From what I've heard from people living in Germany, there very much is, but the government is afraid of change, and love bureaucracy to the point that nothing ever actually gets done or changed. That said, Estonia has been an independent country only for the past 30 years, previously under Soviet Union, and within that time we have technologically surpassed Germany in every way possible, and yet Germany, a huge economy and power, seemingly can't put either of those traits to good use for their people. Seems like you are comparing David to Goliath here, and David is winning.

Re: New Requirements to Travel to Europe

#46

Post by atemerev »

eddtries wrote: post #19
cdot2 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not everyone wants to give their identity to every street vendor to buy a taco

How am I giving my identity to a street vendor when I pay without cash?

To a street vendor, you don’t. To any authorized government agency that have power to ask the street vendor about the transaction that happened, and the bank for your personal details linked to the credit card number, you do. Also to any interested party who can compile the information from numerous PII leaks.

Re: New Requirements to Travel to Europe

#47

Post by Tistron »

eddtries wrote: post #16
patrickk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A huge percentage of daily life in Germany (Europe's biggest economy) and Austria is conducted in cash. https://www.bundesbank.de/en/press/press-releases/payment-be...

That’s true, same with England, but the Scandinavian countries (and others around them) are essentially cashless now. I’ve lived in Sweden for three months and yet to see a single note (literally!).

Yeah, I'm in Sweden. Don't know when I last used cash (well, apart from when I was in Berlin). I have cash in my wallet and some more laying around in case there'd be a failure in the payment systems, but that hasn't happened in years.

Re: New Requirements to Travel to Europe

#48

Post by moffkalast »

infotainment wrote: post #32

For those who don't know, the US requires every foreign visitor to get approved for entry via ESTA, which is basically a visa in every conceivable way except that they don't call it one. It's also essentially identical to ETIAS, the system mentioned in this article. IMO, ESTA is and has always been always a blatant violation of the Visa Wavier treaty, so it's not unreasonable for Europe to respond in kind.

It's a bit weird that they're only doing this now, since ESTA's been a thing for 16 years. I always assumed that non-EU visitors already needed a visa since every other country seems to demand it.

Re: New Requirements to Travel to Europe

#49

Post by mk89 »

askonomm wrote: post #15
patrickk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A huge percentage of daily life in Germany (Europe's biggest economy) and Austria is conducted in cash. https://www.bundesbank.de/en/press/press-releases/payment-be...

Well Germany isn't really considered modern by northern EU standards, as would most northern EU citizens tell you. Don't know about Austria however.

In Germany you can pay by card basically anywhere - with the phone or watch as well in most/many shops as far as I know. Not sure all this criticism makes sense (no I am not German).

There are also historical reasons why Germans are concerned about the possibility of being tracked, which apparently not everyone sees the dangers of.

Re: New Requirements to Travel to Europe

#50

Post by Teever »

setgree wrote: post #42
infotainment wrote: post #32

For those who don't know, the US requires every foreign visitor to get approved for entry via ESTA, which is basically a visa in every conceivable way except that they don't call it one. It's also essentially identical to ETIAS, the system mentioned in this article. IMO, ESTA is and has always been always a blatant violation of the Visa Wavier treaty, so it's not unreasonable for Europe to respond in kind.

The fact that the US did it first doesn’t make it reasonable. Both policies can be bad on their own terms, and either way, the costs will almost entirely be borne by people who had nothing to do with drafting the US policy in the first place.

What course of action do you suggest the EU take if not this one?

What is the correct solution to this problem?

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