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Great Male Renunciation

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Re: Great Male Renunciation

#111

Post by ulizzle »

Jensson wrote: post #70
ulizzle wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, It’s not about that. This was a cultural reaction to the excesses and cruelty of the French ruling classes. And both men and women changed their styles, Im not sure why they don’t mention that. No one wanted to be mistaken by a jacobin and have a bomb thrown at your lap. Women stopped imitating Marie Antoinette way before she was beheaded in the pangs of birth of the reign of terror The obvious historical paralle…

Then this would be isolated to France and you would expect things to normalize as people forgot about the revolution. But things never "normalized", men still prefer to not wear bright colored clothes. > And both men and women changed their styles Maybe in France right after the revolution, but if I look at dresses today I see all that gaudiness in female dresses but not in male.

It depends on the context. For example, fashion for men and women was all pretty wild in post-war America (imo, specifically during the 80s), but stayed pretty colorful throughout the 2000s, until this decade.

Since the ruling classes have been hammering the message that men are useless it's a normal cultural reaction for men to become more manly. Women instead have been told that sex sells and it does, so that's their cultural reaction to the problems of today.

At least for now; but as disorder keeps mounting, inflation rises, and so on, patience for the regimes falls, and more conservative fashions come back, which means the times for the ruling classes are frail and volatile.

Re: Great Male Renunciation

#113

Post by kbelder »

jjeaff wrote: post #81
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t women’s clothing notoriously low-quality due to the whole ‘fast fashion’ phenomenon?

I've never heard of fast fashion being attributed to just women's clothing. There are plenty of men's clothing options at stores like Zara and Uniqlo

Sure, but you're talking about a fraction of woman, and a tiny fraction of men. The effect size is not equivalent.

Re: Great Male Renunciation

#114

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

makeitdouble wrote: post #104
jokethrowaway wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It contrasts my experience but ours are just vain generalisations. Men tends to have less clothes but higher quality (and they wear a lot) while women tend to have thousands of clothes they wear once. I can survive with 2-3 suits (in the 300-500 range, decent quality, but nothing crazy) in any major city in Europe and some shirts - which is what I did for years. Now, times are changing security wise and, while I woul…

On Paris...suits don't have the same cultural meaning, but baggy jumpers might not keep you out of trouble. I think muggers just smell the money and vulnerability. Local people also get mugged /pickpocketed in some circumstances, but in general they have a distinctly different way of moving through the city that makes strangers stand out.

>>distinctly different way of moving through the city

Yeah, on a bycicle moving at 50 km/h across lanes.

Re: Great Male Renunciation

#115

Post by gattilorenz »

smsm42 wrote: post #108
konfusinomicon wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the transition from powdered wigs being the norm and now those damn kids going out without a wig on took over must have been an interesting time. this means at some point there was like 1 guy that held on to the fashion at the very end. not yielding to the new norm for the sake of morals and civility! his wig buried with him. and then no more wigs

Don't English lawyers still wear the wigs?

Not outside court, I imagine.

Re: Great Male Renunciation

#116

Post by ojhughes »

smsm42 wrote: post #108
konfusinomicon wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the transition from powdered wigs being the norm and now those damn kids going out without a wig on took over must have been an interesting time. this means at some point there was like 1 guy that held on to the fashion at the very end. not yielding to the new norm for the sake of morals and civility! his wig buried with him. and then no more wigs

Don't English lawyers still wear the wigs?

Only silk lawyers (King’s Counsel) wear a wig

Re: Great Male Renunciation

#117

Post by mock-possum »

tcgv wrote: post #97
casion wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is "we" in your sentence? I've never heard of this

He's describing a well known formal attire etiquette: https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/advice/a33367/how...

> The two-button jacket should never have both buttons fastened.

Sorry, why put two buttons on the jacket then?

Re: Great Male Renunciation

#118

Post by dehugger »

mock-possum wrote: post #117
tcgv wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's describing a well known formal attire etiquette: https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/advice/a33367/how...

> The two-button jacket should never have both buttons fastened. Sorry, why put two buttons on the jacket then?

Because if there was only one button then you couldn't leave the lowest one undone, which is the style. Therefore, two are required.

Re: Great Male Renunciation

#119

Post by pcthrowaway »

wilkies wrote: post #107
emmelaich wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually Iran has a pretty interesting attitude to the androgynous and masculine and feminine roles. Not saying they wouldn't face violence in the street. Also ... > After Maryam Khatoon’s inquiry, Ayatollah Khomeini issued a legal opinion, known as a fatwa under Shi’a Islamic jurisprudence, asserting the permissibility of GAS [gender affirmation surgery] upon medical approval. Trans women’s status in contemporary Ir…

Iran inflicts this as a punishment for homosexual men: https://www.thepinknews.com/2020/02/22/iran-gay-forced-gende... From the article: > Shadi Amin, an Iranian-born activist, told The Sun that this homophobic Iranian regime is controlled by religious extremists who view being gay as an "illness". They believe that the only way it can be cured is by changing gender. > "The government believes that if you are a gay m…

If you had asked me which country provides free gender reassignment surgery for hetero trans-women, Iran would not have been anywhere in my guesses

Re: Great Male Renunciation

#120

Post by ben_w »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #73
ben_w wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Berlin, we have a "pfand" (deposit) on various bottles. At a summer barbecue you sometimes get people asking to take your bottles away, so they can collect that deposit themselves. For the larger bottles, just four per day would equal the income of a pre-industrial farmhand.

..., ignoring inflation.

No, that's inflation adjusted.

If I ignored inflation (and hand-waved at least three major currency replacements) it would be eight month's wages.

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