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Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

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Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#261

We should do more social studies research into US subcultures that have significantly different marriage norms than the mainstream US. Mormons and Asians both have strong taboos against divorce, and also have strong rates of upward mobility (i.e. much higher odds of kids from low income households ending up as high earning adults). There is some research supporting the link, but not nearly enough: https://www.brookin…

Both Mormons and Asians socialize children into “do what you’re obliged to do, not what you want to do.” Wow, that's incredibly reductive. Asia has approx 4.7 billion people!

>Wow, that's incredibly reductive. Asia has approx 4.7 billion people!

Asian cultures are generally more collectivistic than individualistic compared to the West.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#262
post #2

Is it that marriage itself is beneficial or that people capable of maintaining a relationship make better parents? Divorce is significantly more common for bipolar, paranoid, and schizophrenic people for example. So I think we need to look at widows or something to control for those kinds of issues.

Married people vs divorced probably have the same distribution of mental illness. I think it has to due more with two incomes, two parents attention/time/insights/wisdom to benefit from. Maybe mom is good at math and dad is good at writing or history. It seems like more is better when it comes to raising a kid--hence the phrase 'it takes a village'. I bet if you did a study that also counted how many other extended family members are involved in the kid's life that would also show the same correlation.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the reasons that I think Kant's ideas on Deontology (also Confucian philosophy around relationships) is the correct one for a functioning society. There is a framework of "Right" and "Wrong" that exists outside of "Good" and "Bad". Doing what is beneficial for society, and what is expected of society is right, regardless of the Good nature of it. If society expects you to fight in a war, and you kill s…

It’s pretty much collectivism vs individualism. The West has mostly leaned towards individualism (aka “it's a free country”) while the East Asia under the influence of Confucianism is most collective. Collectivism has its downsides. It can be suffocating. Society also doesn’t always take into consideration an individual’s limitations when it comes to meeting societal obligations - a moot point in more individualistic…

> Collectivism has its downsides.

Collectivism also has upsides. I’m fascinated by Mormons because they seem to me to be the most Asian white people. Mormon men have a life expectancy almost 10 years longer than other white men. They have among the highest social mobility in the country. They, along with Jews, top the charts in measures of mental well being.

And this is all happening within the context of America. They deal with the same Obamacare, seem to have basically the same school systems, etc.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#264
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An assumption here is that attractive men both pair with women at a higher rate and also have more children. I don't see any reason that's the case - the very largest families I am aware of in my extended social circle belong to men who are not necessarily the greatest catches.

>An assumption here is that attractive men both pair with women at a higher rate and also have more children. I don't see any reason that's the case - the very largest families I am aware of in my extended social circle belong to men who are not necessarily the greatest catches. Three things. 1. Attractive is not physical attraction. While men are visual women have different criteria for attraction that is much more…

> 2. What I'm describing is a recent phenomenon. A gradual shift that we're seeing in the last decade or so, so relationships established at the beginning of 2010 and before tend to be more traditional/conservative.

There is room for considerable bias here;

1. Most generations consider their immediate neighbors more and less conservative, going back and forward respectively

2. People become more conservative with age; particularly when major investments are in play such as a home purchase and having children. It's a small coincidence that children and mortgages both take about 20 years to come to fruition.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#265

We should do more social studies research into US subcultures that have significantly different marriage norms than the mainstream US. Mormons and Asians both have strong taboos against divorce, and also have strong rates of upward mobility (i.e. much higher odds of kids from low income households ending up as high earning adults). There is some research supporting the link, but not nearly enough: https://www.brookin…

This is one of the reasons that I think Kant's ideas on Deontology (also Confucian philosophy around relationships) is the correct one for a functioning society. There is a framework of "Right" and "Wrong" that exists outside of "Good" and "Bad". Doing what is beneficial for society, and what is expected of society is right, regardless of the Good nature of it. If society expects you to fight in a war, and you kill s…

The consequences of the society decide what is right has very bad consequences i.e [1].

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#266
post #118
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Divorce is significantly more common for bipolar, paranoid, and schizophrenic people for example is that really a significant factor? i'd think that the number of people suffering from mental issues is a minority, and even if in their group are more divorces, those should only be a fraction of the total number of divorces.

Yes, because either parent could have menial issues. Especially when you include things like gambling addiction which are also linked to divorce. ~2.8% of the population has bipolar disorder. The odds that one partner at the start of a relationship is bipolar should be ~5.6%. 1% of the population is schizophrenic so ~2% of the population. We aren’t quite up to 7.6% of relationships just from those 2 groups because th…

Post a generality on HN and you're bound to get corrected by the math police.

Most studies agree that bipolar disorder is not evenly distributed across the sexes. Schizophrenia is roughly equal but occurs for men before/during peak childbearing years, and for women happens after.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>An assumption here is that attractive men both pair with women at a higher rate and also have more children. I don't see any reason that's the case - the very largest families I am aware of in my extended social circle belong to men who are not necessarily the greatest catches. Three things. 1. Attractive is not physical attraction. While men are visual women have different criteria for attraction that is much more…

> 2. What I'm describing is a recent phenomenon. A gradual shift that we're seeing in the last decade or so, so relationships established at the beginning of 2010 and before tend to be more traditional/conservative. There is room for considerable bias here; 1. Most generations consider their immediate neighbors more and less conservative, going back and forward respectively 2. People become more conservative with age…

>There is room for considerable bias here;

Agreed. But the issue with bias is that the biased person is unable to visualize their own bias. They always think the other party is biased. Unfortunately I believe that out of both of us here, the bias actually lies with you but you're unable to see it. Here's why:

>1. Most generations consider their immediate neighbors more and less conservative, going back and forward respectively

Yeah, but i'm not talking about that. I'm talking about a general trend towards liberalism. The past decade brought about a general liberal movement outside of the one where people get more conservative with age.

That much is obvious. Society is shifting towards more and more woke-ism, feminism which is good in some ways but in other ways it's becoming extremist on those fronts. It's so extreme that many of the liberal policies in California are causing an exodus where people move to more conservative states like arizona and texas.

>2. People become more conservative with age; particularly when major investments are in play such as a home purchase and having children. It's a small coincidence that children and mortgages both take about 20 years to come to fruition.

I'm talking Monogamy and polygamy. Not finances or investments or law. For example in the 60s women sex before marriage was not normal. Now a body count of 5+ among women before marriage is considered normal. But you realize this has nothing to do with mortgages, children or major investments.

The bias here lies with the fact that you see things through the lens of politics. I'm talking about anthropology and biology. It's human Behavior and psychology... Not politics.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, nutrition

food stamps can be used to buy nutritious food

Agreed but food stamps are finitely available per unit time, whereas wealthy people could be considered availed of far far more food stamps per unit time.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#269
post #112

Marriage is a legal construct; it can provide a level of security (and fairness) that isn't otherwise accessible. But as the laws change, the benefits change too. I think men marry in the hope of binding their partner; fat chance. Marriage gives the partner a claim on a big chunk of the man's assets, so it incentivizes women to divorce their husbands. The great majority of divorces are initiated by the wife. I'm not…

It's mad, no? When I ask people point blank why they're getting married, they just stare at me. Obviously part of that is because I'm being autistically rude in asking such a questions, but I haven't heard any compelling answers either.

Getting married forces difficult confrontations that many relationships get to bypass by breaking up.

If you make it through the difficult confrontations your relationship gains robustness and is better for your offspring.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the reasons that I think Kant's ideas on Deontology (also Confucian philosophy around relationships) is the correct one for a functioning society. There is a framework of "Right" and "Wrong" that exists outside of "Good" and "Bad". Doing what is beneficial for society, and what is expected of society is right, regardless of the Good nature of it. If society expects you to fight in a war, and you kill s…

It’s pretty much collectivism vs individualism. The West has mostly leaned towards individualism (aka “it's a free country”) while the East Asia under the influence of Confucianism is most collective. Collectivism has its downsides. It can be suffocating. Society also doesn’t always take into consideration an individual’s limitations when it comes to meeting societal obligations - a moot point in more individualistic…

    The West has mostly leaned towards individualism (aka “it's a free country”) while the East Asia under the influence of Confucianism is most collective.
This is ridiculous. Look at the divorce rates here: https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/divorce-rate-by-count...

Mainland China has a surprisingly high divorce rate.

How do you explain why Canada has a divorce rate less than one half of the United States?

Japan and the Netherlands have roughly the same divorce rates, and wildly different cultures.

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