Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 431 posts

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#211

Post by ndriscoll »

mvncleaninst wrote: post #196
ndriscoll wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People might not feel that way if you didn't belittle homemakers (or do we need movements to let people know they can do things other than be doctors/lawyers/whatever profession you view as high status?) A more equitable solution than socialized childcare that recognizes that homemaker is a valuable job that lots of women (50% of those with children) would prefer to do would be to increase the refundable child tax cr…

> A more equitable solution than socialized childcare that recognizes that homemaker is a valuable job It isn't a valuable job, economically speaking. It's an anachronism and essentially a luxury for couples where one parent makes enough to support the entire household. Not only this, but it essentially puts all of the pressure on the working parent to economically hold up the household The cases where it economicall…

It's viable and modern enough that over 25% of women do it [0]. And there's a wide spectrum of people who make that choice. There's a large amount of parents that take on that role because their alternatives (e.g. retail jobs or gig work) would leave them in a worse position after paying for childcare, but no one's claiming retail work is not economically viable. Though if I had to make a judgement, I'd say raising your children full-time is more valuable work than e.g. Instacart or Starbucks, which are both luxuries.

Honestly I don't know how you could even make an economic statement about it that doesn't boil down to a tautology unless you're also willing to say e.g. teachers aren't an economically valuable job.

[0] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/08/03/almost-1-...

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#212

Post by dukeyukey »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #162
theGnuMe wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has a better social safety network and wants people to have more kids.

> and wants people to have more kids. That doesn't seem to be the case. The last 60 years saw plenty of anti family propaganda (same like in the US) and the numbers confirm that trend. The only people keeping the number of kids per family high are immigrants from Africa / Middle East who haven't been indoctrinated for 60 years.

How many African and Middle Eastern immigrants do you think the US currently has?

I'll give you a hint - it's quite a lot less than the number of Mormons in the US. Who are a group significantly whiter than the US general population, and with higher birth rates to boot.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#213

Post by userinanother »

mvncleaninst wrote: post #207

These types of articles are doing the opposite of what they're trying to do. How exactly is framing marriage in purely economic terms supposed to encourage marriage? How is reducing people down to an income stream, a college diploma, genitalia, etc going to encourage marriage? Take this for example: > not because they reject the concept of marriage, but because they do not see him as a reliable source of economic sec…

Because initial burst of love only lasts so long. After that it’s friendship, economics, co dependence and the other things that keep families working tougher as one unit

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#214

Post by userinanother »

stainablesteel wrote: post #160

> Where are the dads? > One of the biggest issues is that women seem to be giving up on men, particularly those without college degrees this is about what i would expect from npr it has nothing to do with welfare starting in the 1960s where you can visibly see a breakup in families by incentivizing divorce, its.... college

I do kind of wonder about the dads. American dads do more house duties than dads from other countries but Maybe it’s just dads in high economic classes

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#215

Post by em-bee »

angmarsbane wrote: post #204
em-bee wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the partnership started the moment they decided to have a child. so why even have a child with someone who is unreliable?

Because women have a limited window to have children and have to work with the options available. A woman can’t put off kids indefinitely waiting for partners to stabilize financially, emotionally etc.

that window is at least 20 years wide. if it's not possible to find a reliable partner in that time then the world is in a very sorry state.

i accept that it can be difficult, and that people can be blinded by love but if i already know that a person is unreliable enough that i don't want to marry them, then why have a child from them?

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#216

Post by caeril »

mvncleaninst wrote: post #207

These types of articles are doing the opposite of what they're trying to do. How exactly is framing marriage in purely economic terms supposed to encourage marriage? How is reducing people down to an income stream, a college diploma, genitalia, etc going to encourage marriage? Take this for example: > not because they reject the concept of marriage, but because they do not see him as a reliable source of economic sec…

[flagged]

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#217

Post by userinanother »

jollofricepeas wrote: post #89
christophilus wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure everything stems from this. Marriage was not just for the wealthy and nobles in the Middle Ages, or in the 1800s or in subsaharan Africa, etc. If it’s a matter of relative wealth disparity, there have been plenty of eras (probably the majority of recorded human history) in which the kings and nobles had a similar wealth gap to their poorest married subjects as we see today between the 1% and the 99%. I’m…

Well… The reason for marriage collapse is lack of well paying manufacturing jobs. The American Economic Institute - https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aeri.20180010 Brookings Institute study - https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-marriage-gap-the-impa ...

Which might be fine if after that men went home and took over traditional female tasks like cooking, cleaning and childcare. But they didn’t, and instead women ended up bringing in the money and having to do everything else while the husbands played video games and didn’t contribute. This resulted in women getting rid of the husband so they didn’t have an extra kid to take care of.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#218

Post by ndriscoll »

pixl97 wrote: post #186
ndriscoll wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People might not feel that way if you didn't belittle homemakers (or do we need movements to let people know they can do things other than be doctors/lawyers/whatever profession you view as high status?) A more equitable solution than socialized childcare that recognizes that homemaker is a valuable job that lots of women (50% of those with children) would prefer to do would be to increase the refundable child tax cr…

At the end of the day I'd say even talking about homemakers doesn't matter as much as you think. People in general like the addition economic freedom from making more money. Even starting at WWII women started working in huge numbers in the US and that number has increased ever since. The sending the money back in tax credits barely works in a single income house because the otherside in the massive increase of avail…

Maybe, but anecdotally, despite the zeitgeist of the last 10 years claiming otherwise, my wife and I both raised in middle class suburbs of different parts of red-state Arizona both internalized the message growing up that girls not working was an anachronism that only Mormons/Catholics still stuck to (and that it was "oppressive" or weird). It's so ingrained in the middle/upper middle class that people can't even see it. e.g. this article from Yale[0]:

> Despite efforts to promote gender equality in occupations and professions, many women still choose to stay at home or work part-time. In the United States, for example, a 2015 Gallup survey found that more than half of women with children under age 18 would prefer to stay at home over working outside the home. Also, nearly 40 percent of women without children under age 18 indicated that they preferred the homemaker role.

Let the phrasing sink in. Despite efforts, women still prefer that role. It's quite clear from context that their preference is wrong.

As far as economics goes, people wildly overstate how unachievable it is. Having a stay-at-home parent is not something reserved for the 1%, and in fact many poorer people do it for economic reasons. People have been taught not to want it, so they don't try to figure out how to make it work.

[0] https://archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/more-women-stay-...

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#219

Post by userinanother »

lvl102 wrote: post #24
bloopernova wrote: post #5

America is moving the other way because all the wealth and power has been sucked up by the 0.1% and a large majority are too tired, stressed, and poor. Everything stems from this. Too much wealth tied up in the health insurance scam to switch to single payer, so people stay bound to their employment, and they can't afford time off or visits to the doctor because nothing is completely covered anymore. Too much wealth…

I find it ridiculous that healthcare is the greatest driver of cost of living but no one does anything about it. Doctors and nurses are overworked too. It’s the biggest scam going right now and all the politicians are in on it.

CPI says it’s 8% of your basket. Thats obviously not true

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#220

Post by ckrapu »

corethree wrote: post #187
danielschonfeld wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This question is answered in the interview. She is saying that a household with a stable long lasting relationship is what’s driving these better outcomes. She’s also saying that in America marriage (unfortunately) seems to be the only way to keep people together for a long while (long enough for a child to not experience a parade of parents by the time they are 15 according to the article). In my personal opinion. I…

Yes hyper individuality is part of it. The other part of it is gender equality. For most of human civilization genders were not equal so both sexes evolved traits that are also unequal. The most glaring trait responsible for lack of marriage is female hypergamy. Previously women being of generally unequal/lower status then men and overall a smaller pool of candidates (no online dating) would be forced to be more egal…

An assumption here is that attractive men both pair with women at a higher rate and also have more children. I don't see any reason that's the case - the very largest families I am aware of in my extended social circle belong to men who are not necessarily the greatest catches.
Post reply on HN