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Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

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Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#121

Post by em-bee »

hfuyf65 wrote: post #8

Anecdote incoming. Usual disclaimers apply. I genuinely am not sure what true numbers are. Couple#1 They are married for a good while with three kids. He is a cop in Chicago; she has semi-random kid watching gigs. While it did not happen, they did openly discuss strategic divorce to ease their financial situation. Couple#2 She works corpo job. He works a cash only contracting job. They are married in every sense, but…

what are those benefits you speak of? and why are they structured in such a way that it benefits those not legally married?

in austria/germany at least what matters is household income. if you live together you get supported together. being married has no disadvantage.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#122

Post by em-bee »

lapcat wrote: post #120
dietsche wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument is non sequitor. If wealth inequality was the problem, couples would be forced by economics to work together to bring in more together than they could separately and to share resources like housing to reduce costs.

From the article: > many women don't marry the father of their child not because they reject the concept of marriage, but because they do not see him as a reliable source of economic security or stability. If you think of marriage as purely a business partnership, would you go into business with someone who is unreliable? It's better to be a sole proprietorship than have your entire business brought down by a bad par…

the partnership started the moment they decided to have a child. so why even have a child with someone who is unreliable?

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#123

Post by kthejoker2 »

nec4b wrote: post #103
bloopernova wrote: post #5

America is moving the other way because all the wealth and power has been sucked up by the 0.1% and a large majority are too tired, stressed, and poor. Everything stems from this. Too much wealth tied up in the health insurance scam to switch to single payer, so people stay bound to their employment, and they can't afford time off or visits to the doctor because nothing is completely covered anymore. Too much wealth…

>> Everything stems from this. And how do you explain how very poor countries where the top 1% have wealth comparable to wealthy American peers and 99% of the country has less income American middle class had 100 years ago and they have no problems with marriages?

What rights do women have in those country? Can they vote? Drive? Get abortion? Get birth control?

Do they have marital rape laws? Domestic abuse laws? Do they have no fault divorce laws?

How do they handle common law property? Custody laws? Parental rights?

What education do they provide to young women? What institutions do they have supporting female financial independence?

What role does organized religion and specifically church leadership play in the day to day lives of women?

The answer to your question is culture. Wealth simply fuels culture, it is not the source of it.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#124

Post by lapcat »

em-bee wrote: post #122
lapcat wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > many women don't marry the father of their child not because they reject the concept of marriage, but because they do not see him as a reliable source of economic security or stability. If you think of marriage as purely a business partnership, would you go into business with someone who is unreliable? It's better to be a sole proprietorship than have your entire business brought down by a bad par…

the partnership started the moment they decided to have a child. so why even have a child with someone who is unreliable?

> the partnership started the moment they decided to have a child.

Assuming they "decided".

> so why even have a child with someone who is unreliable?

Because you want a child? Sperm donor.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#125

Post by em-bee »

denton-scratch wrote: post #107

Marriage is a legal construct; it can provide a level of security (and fairness) that isn't otherwise accessible. But as the laws change, the benefits change too. I think men marry in the hope of binding their partner; fat chance. Marriage gives the partner a claim on a big chunk of the man's assets, so it incentivizes women to divorce their husbands. The great majority of divorces are initiated by the wife. I'm not…

what happened in those 15 years? i don't think that your partner married you with the goal of taking your assets. if that was the case i doubt the marriages would have lasted 15 years.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#126

Post by gls2ro »

bequanna wrote: post #95
2devnull wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you live in an area with high international demand for housing? Not all of the US is a hot spot for high paid immigrants, yet. Displacement is a real thing. Not everyone can change states or nations to make the finances work out.

Luckily in the US you can choose to live wherever you want. If you’re priced out of a neighborhood, you can choose to live somewhere else. You can also choose how many and why type of cars to have, what food to eat, how much to spend on vacations, etc. Hell, you can even choose where and what you do for work! What a country! Many people will choose higher spending power with two incomes rather than take a step down t…

I am not sure how it is in US but sharing a bit from my perspective (living in EU):

The (mental) cost of moving is sometimes hard. Here are only two main things:

- you lose your support system (friends, family)

- you lose your time (and maybe cost) saving tricks/knowledge (where to go to buy things, medicine, …)

All these are not impossible to solve but they are way harder for single parent family.

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#127

Post by hfuyf65 »

em-bee wrote: post #121
hfuyf65 wrote: post #8

Anecdote incoming. Usual disclaimers apply. I genuinely am not sure what true numbers are. Couple#1 They are married for a good while with three kids. He is a cop in Chicago; she has semi-random kid watching gigs. While it did not happen, they did openly discuss strategic divorce to ease their financial situation. Couple#2 She works corpo job. He works a cash only contracting job. They are married in every sense, but…

what are those benefits you speak of? and why are they structured in such a way that it benefits those not legally married? in austria/germany at least what matters is household income. if you live together you get supported together. being married has no disadvantage.

Some of what I am about to say is state specific ( in my case IL ), so take this into consideration. Income is a consideration for any help. Married couple will have higher documented income, while unmarried cohabiting couple won't. In other words, single parent ( on paper ) will claim a child and with lower income have a better chance of being in the low enough income bracket.

I have zero idea how common that situation is though, but I know someone who structures their life around snap benefits ( or whatever they are called now ) and its kinda ridiculous, because her monthly benedit is on par with our family's grocery budget. I struggled not to report it as fraud ( the person in question is not poor; they are using - abusing?- the system ).

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#128

Post by beej71 »

Retric wrote: post #115
danielschonfeld wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This question is answered in the interview. She is saying that a household with a stable long lasting relationship is what’s driving these better outcomes. She’s also saying that in America marriage (unfortunately) seems to be the only way to keep people together for a long while (long enough for a child to not experience a parade of parents by the time they are 15 according to the article). In my personal opinion. I…

Again, both parents in a stable long lasting relationship are capable of a stable long lasting relationship. Americans being bad at this doesn’t mean long term relationships are the sole difference, though they likely do provide some benefits it’s not the total difference in populations. "I don't know exactly what it is about marriage, but it is a very practical matter," says Kearney, chafing at all the criticism. "I…

I'd like to see a control on this. Is there a group of people who thought they were married, but by bureaucratic snafu actually weren't? Did they have different outcomes than people who were really married?

Re: Children of married parents do better, but America is moving the other way

#129

Post by em-bee »

hfuyf65 wrote: post #127
em-bee wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what are those benefits you speak of? and why are they structured in such a way that it benefits those not legally married? in austria/germany at least what matters is household income. if you live together you get supported together. being married has no disadvantage.

Some of what I am about to say is state specific ( in my case IL ), so take this into consideration. Income is a consideration for any help. Married couple will have higher documented income, while unmarried cohabiting couple won't. In other words, single parent ( on paper ) will claim a child and with lower income have a better chance of being in the low enough income bracket. I have zero idea how common that situat…

Married couple will have higher documented income, while unmarried cohabiting couple won't

that seems to be the problem then. i think generally, hiding the income of a divorced partner is difficult so making your first scenario less likely in many places.

and the other case would also require one partner to maintain credible evidence that they actually live apart and do not support each other. where i come from this is not easy to do.

if you live in an area where this is possible then that's a disappointing state of local legislation.

either way i doubt there is a large number of people doing this. at least i hope not. and it may as well be considered fraud.

i wouldn't bother reporting it though, because it is not going to improve your own life.

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