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'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

reuters.com

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Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#41

Post by Niksko »

Aromasin wrote: post #27

Reconciliation is a concept that I've not been able to wrap my head around, and I'm interested whether anyone here has read books that have swayed them one way or the other that they could recommend, especially with what's happening in Israel and Palestine at the moment. In my eyes, it seems unreasonable for anyone in today's day and age to expect something from someone else based on the actions of their ancestors, o…

> and focus on the power disparities of today's society

That's basically what this is about. Aboriginal people have much less power and much worse outcomes. This referendum was proposing to give them a little bit more, in a pretty gentle, non-binding way. That was rejected.

In general, I've found that many many arguments about systemic inequality basically boil down to a fairly simple question: is it better to solve a problem slow and steady, or fast and (maybe) risky. Generally the people with more to lose, the people with more power, tend to say 'slow and steady is good enough for me'. The disadvantaged however would prefer a faster solution. Those with power often argue for slow and steady by saying 'the fast way is also risky'. That's basically what happened with this referendum. People voted for doing nothing over a measure which may have not done what it set out to do, but also may have helped.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#42

Post by mrkeen »

ta_vf7xjd34cc wrote: post #38
throwaway69123 wrote: post #20

Non Australians commenting on this article who want to take a critical view would be encouraged to research outside editorialised media opinion. This referendum was asking for the equivalent of a new representative body in dc comprised of only native Americans and all levels of gov would be required to seek their advice on all policy that effects them which as any of would understand is everything. What are the chanc…

Why is an autonomous state (a grander version of the outstation idea) within the bounds of the Australian constitution not considered?[1] Allot a certain percentage of the federal budget to the state for the next 50/100 years and let them manage their affairs (including internal conflicts)? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outstation_(Aboriginal_communi...

Willingly moving into apartheid is a terrible idea.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#43

Post by boppo1 »

andrewstuart wrote: post #33
Aromasin wrote: post #27

Reconciliation is a concept that I've not been able to wrap my head around, and I'm interested whether anyone here has read books that have swayed them one way or the other that they could recommend, especially with what's happening in Israel and Palestine at the moment. In my eyes, it seems unreasonable for anyone in today's day and age to expect something from someone else based on the actions of their ancestors, o…

I suggest kindness and empathy in dealing with those less fortunate. Aboriginal people ARE special in Australia. They were here for 60,000 years until we turned up. They are deeply disadvantaged and need and deserve every possible assistance to address the terrible social issues their community faces. Not much was being asked for here except the requirement for parliament to listen to aboriginal take on issues impact…

>Not much was being asked for here except the requirement for parliament to listen to aboriginal take on issues impacting aboriginal people.

Idk I heard there was a multi-page addition to the constitution that used Aboriginal people to 'empathy-wash' increased powers for the government to infringe on the rights of citizens. Pretty big ask. Also heard that part of the failure was Aboriginal people saying 'hey yo, this doesn't actually represent us.'

But what do I know? Maybe Aussies are just mean nazis who want to keep brown people down forever.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#44

Post by boppo1 »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #7
okokwhatever wrote: post #2

It's the core concept of democracy. You lose, you are mostly out. You know, democracy.

> It's the core concept of democracy. You lose, you are mostly out. You know, democracy. Democracy isn't about winner takes all. Its about you balance the needs and aspirations of everyone in a society: literally the demos . Sometimes, as in my country (UK), democracy is practiced by imposing a thresholding function on decision-making processes ("first past the post") but it's worth remembering that this is largely f…

>It doesn't have to be that way, and plenty of places do it better - and have healitier, more equal societies as a result.

Where?

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#45

Post by ta_vf7xjd34cc »

mrkeen wrote: post #42
ta_vf7xjd34cc wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is an autonomous state (a grander version of the outstation idea) within the bounds of the Australian constitution not considered?[1] Allot a certain percentage of the federal budget to the state for the next 50/100 years and let them manage their affairs (including internal conflicts)? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outstation_(Aboriginal_communi...

Willingly moving into apartheid is a terrible idea.

> apartheid

It is autonomy, not apartheid. There are many ethnic/religious communities around the world who have fought for autonomy to varying degrees of success.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#46

Post by Arnt »

okokwhatever wrote: post #2

It's the core concept of democracy. You lose, you are mostly out. You know, democracy.

That which you describe was called roughly "dictatorial majority" when I learned about these things in school, and the difference between it and democracy was that in a democracy, the majority behaves considerately and tries to keep the minority happy. Happy enough to want to participate in the next election, and happy enough to be considerate if the next election ends differently.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#47

Post by mishappen »

throwaway69123 wrote: post #20

Non Australians commenting on this article who want to take a critical view would be encouraged to research outside editorialised media opinion. This referendum was asking for the equivalent of a new representative body in dc comprised of only native Americans and all levels of gov would be required to seek their advice on all policy that effects them which as any of would understand is everything. What are the chanc…

This isn’t a good description of the proposed changes at all. Here is the entirety of the change:

— In recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia:

1. there shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice; 2. the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples; 3. the Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures. —

To summarise, it’s an advisory body that can make non-binding representations to government on issues relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. It is also exclusively a federal government body. On top of this, that same federal government controls everything about this advisory body (composition, functions, powers and procedures).

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#48

Post by okokwhatever »

boppo1 wrote: post #44
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the core concept of democracy. You lose, you are mostly out. You know, democracy. Democracy isn't about winner takes all. Its about you balance the needs and aspirations of everyone in a society: literally the demos . Sometimes, as in my country (UK), democracy is practiced by imposing a thresholding function on decision-making processes ("first past the post") but it's worth remembering that this is largely f…

>It doesn't have to be that way, and plenty of places do it better - and have healitier, more equal societies as a result. Where?

Bang! You got the point mate.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#49

Post by okokwhatever »

belorn wrote: post #24
thih9 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we were in a Douglas Adams novel, aliens would now invade, take away our homes and our rights. After a couple of generations they would have a vote on giving us some of our rights back. They would vote mostly among themselves using their proven cosmocratic framework.

It would then highlight how single cell organisms was the original lifeforms everywhere, born from a dish at the restaurant at the end of the universe.

LoL, you've summarized the last decade of crazy social policies in just one phrase. You've made my day, thanks.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#50

Post by okokwhatever »

kiwih wrote: post #36
krona wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you personally choose whether an indigenous group have a right to be represented? For example, should people in Britain who can trace their ancestors to the Mesolithic gain this right too?

Perhaps a referendum would be a good way to do it? The UK has proposed, and even passed, a few of those in recent memory

Please, stop the train, I want to step down...
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