Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 73 posts

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#11

Post by logicchains »

isoprophlex wrote: post #4
okokwhatever wrote: post #2

It's the core concept of democracy. You lose, you are mostly out. You know, democracy.

Democracy without compassion, which this referendum is an example of, is just the political equivalent of the tragedy of the commons, nicely sanitized for mass consumption. A smug system of hidden, institutionalized marginalization and oppression.

>Democracy without compassion

Exactly what compassionate outcome would be achieved by giving them a special place in the constitution that couldn't be achieved otherwise?

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#12

Post by docdeek »

Ex-pat Australian who didn’t/was not allowed to vote in the referendum:

Watching this play out, was reminded of the Australian Republic Referendum from a while ago now. The feeling I had then was that the population was broadly in favor of Australia becoming a republic, but differed on the structure of that republic (popularly elected President, President appointed by parliament etc). In the end, the question put to the people was about a specific type of republic and the people said no. The rejection of that referendum was used to demonstrate that Australians didn’t really want a republic when, in my opinion, they just didn’t want the one served up in the question.

This time around the no vote is being used to suggest that Australians don’t want reconciliation or recognition of Indigenous people in the Constitution. I don’t buy that, either. I feel like there was a rejection of the specific idea of the Voice, but not a rejection of reconciliation.

I’ve been away from the country for a long time but it seems to me that if a plebiscite question was something like, ‘Do you favor an Australian republic?’ or ‘Do you favor recognising Indigenous Australians in the Constitution?’, you’d probably pass both easily. The details - and it’s always the details that trip you up, I know - could then be hashed out afterwards with the new baseline being ‘We are going to be a republic so let’s figure out what sort of republic will get broad support’ or ‘We are going to recognize Indigenous Australians in the Constitution so let’s figure out how to do that in a way that’ll get broad support’.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#13

Post by dissent »

asyx wrote: post #6
okokwhatever wrote: post #2

It's the core concept of democracy. You lose, you are mostly out. You know, democracy.

"That people who have only been on this continent for 235 years would refuse to recognise those whose home this land has been for 60,000 and more years is beyond reason." Top quote the article...

They are recognised and acknowledged to the point that it becomes tiring hearing about it all the time. The referendum was whether there should be a constitutional change, and the country decided overwhelmingly that there should not be. Several prominent indigenous Australians voted no. There's really nothing to see here.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#14

Post by sinuhe69 »

okokwhatever wrote: post #2

It's the core concept of democracy. You lose, you are mostly out. You know, democracy.

You can not truly call the practice of killing most indigenous people then saying “Now we vote!” a democracy process.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#15

Post by BiteCode_dev »

okokwhatever wrote: post #2

It's the core concept of democracy. You lose, you are mostly out. You know, democracy.

They didn't get a vote when their country were taken by force to install a majority of people acting and voting against their interest.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#16

Post by logicchains »

Most of the Australian politicians pushing for this don't give a crap about Aboriginals, they just wanted a way to further weaken the already weak Australian constitution by adding a section that special interest groups could take advantage of.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#17

Post by Dalewyn »

logicchains wrote: post #11
isoprophlex wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy without compassion, which this referendum is an example of, is just the political equivalent of the tragedy of the commons, nicely sanitized for mass consumption. A smug system of hidden, institutionalized marginalization and oppression.

>Democracy without compassion Exactly what compassionate outcome would be achieved by giving them a special place in the constitution that couldn't be achieved otherwise?

>giving them a special place in the constitution

I would like to put emphasis on "special" here because specifically mentioning the "Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island people" and giving them special treatment is, by its nature, racist. It's positive racism, yes, but racism is still racism.

While I support their endeavours for further and stronger recognition (presumably since it's not equal to the rest), they can't declare how they want to fight racism when they are asking for special treatment based on their race and heritage. Hypocrisy is a great way to kill a message, no matter how good its spirit actually is.

(I will clarify I'm American, so I have no tangible horse here.)

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#18

Post by BiteCode_dev »

docdeek wrote: post #12

Ex-pat Australian who didn’t/was not allowed to vote in the referendum: Watching this play out, was reminded of the Australian Republic Referendum from a while ago now. The feeling I had then was that the population was broadly in favor of Australia becoming a republic, but differed on the structure of that republic (popularly elected President, President appointed by parliament etc). In the end, the question put to…

Well, everybody is for helping the poors but few people give money in the street.

So we could use your argument in reverse and say people will reject any practical realization of a beautiful theorical idea because reality is always imperfect.

The guy may drink the money. He has a dog. He is still going to be on the street, that doesn't solve the problem.

I give money and gets remarks from some friends like I'm doing a bad things.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#19

Post by thih9 »

okokwhatever wrote: post #2

It's the core concept of democracy. You lose, you are mostly out. You know, democracy.

If we were in a Douglas Adams novel, aliens would now invade, take away our homes and our rights.

After a couple of generations they would have a vote on giving us some of our rights back.

They would vote mostly among themselves using their proven cosmocratic framework.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#20

Post by throwaway69123 »

Non Australians commenting on this article who want to take a critical view would be encouraged to research outside editorialised media opinion.

This referendum was asking for the equivalent of a new representative body in dc comprised of only native Americans and all levels of gov would be required to seek their advice on all policy that effects them which as any of would understand is everything.

What are the chances of a us constitutional amended getting over line for this?

Post reply on HN