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'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

reuters.com

21–30 of 73 posts

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#21

It's the core concept of democracy. You lose, you are mostly out. You know, democracy.

Don't forget the foundation of genocide and displacement, followed by centuries of subjugation, propaganda, "reeducation", exploitation, economic and political maginalization and racism.

So Australians should solidify their status in to the constitution in perpetuity? How do you square that with basic principle of liberal universalism?

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#22

It's the core concept of democracy. You lose, you are mostly out. You know, democracy.

Democracy without compassion, which this referendum is an example of, is just the political equivalent of the tragedy of the commons, nicely sanitized for mass consumption. A smug system of hidden, institutionalized marginalization and oppression.

This is misplaced compassion. Giving people who happen to have a specific genetic heritage a privileged position in the law because you feel sorry for them is not compassionate - it's racist and demeaning. And exactly how much genetic heritage does someone need to qualify? One drop? Is it really healthy for society to even start having that conversation and categorizing people by their genetic characteristics? If "compassion" is driving you to toss out equality before the law, you're on the wrong track.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#23

It's the core concept of democracy. You lose, you are mostly out. You know, democracy.

They didn't get a vote when their country were taken by force to install a majority of people acting and voting against their interest.

There isn’t a country on earth that’s wasn’t taken by force by the current majority people.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#24
post #19

It's the core concept of democracy. You lose, you are mostly out. You know, democracy.

If we were in a Douglas Adams novel, aliens would now invade, take away our homes and our rights. After a couple of generations they would have a vote on giving us some of our rights back. They would vote mostly among themselves using their proven cosmocratic framework.

It would then highlight how single cell organisms was the original lifeforms everywhere, born from a dish at the restaurant at the end of the universe.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy without compassion, which this referendum is an example of, is just the political equivalent of the tragedy of the commons, nicely sanitized for mass consumption. A smug system of hidden, institutionalized marginalization and oppression.

This is misplaced compassion. Giving people who happen to have a specific genetic heritage a privileged position in the law because you feel sorry for them is not compassionate - it's racist and demeaning. And exactly how much genetic heritage does someone need to qualify? One drop? Is it really healthy for society to even start having that conversation and categorizing people by their genetic characteristics? If "co…

No part of what you said is rooted in anything even barely resembling what the Voice was actually about. Christ, it was a glorified advisory body to the government. Basically harmless except it could've guaranteed Indigenous Australians would have a say in the future of the country violently stolen from them, instead of continuing to be disenfranchised. It has nothing to do with proving genetic heritage to get special treatment. You walk up to the government with a big bag of money to make people listen to your particular concerns and people call it "lobbying", you try to do it the right way and people claim it's some eugenics conspiracy.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#26
post #12

Ex-pat Australian who didn’t/was not allowed to vote in the referendum: Watching this play out, was reminded of the Australian Republic Referendum from a while ago now. The feeling I had then was that the population was broadly in favor of Australia becoming a republic, but differed on the structure of that republic (popularly elected President, President appointed by parliament etc). In the end, the question put to…

Well, everybody is for helping the poors but few people give money in the street. So we could use your argument in reverse and say people will reject any practical realization of a beautiful theorical idea because reality is always imperfect. The guy may drink the money. He has a dog. He is still going to be on the street, that doesn't solve the problem. I give money and gets remarks from some friends like I'm doing…

It can be summed up as Ideas Are Cheap, Execution Is Everything.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#27
Reconciliation is a concept that I've not been able to wrap my head around, and I'm interested whether anyone here has read books that have swayed them one way or the other that they could recommend, especially with what's happening in Israel and Palestine at the moment.

In my eyes, it seems unreasonable for anyone in today's day and age to expect something from someone else based on the actions of their ancestors, or people with similar race/ethnicity, particularly in the case of giving any one other race/ethnicity political or capital power over others. Social groups ranked by birth should be something left in the Dark Ages, like feudalism and the worlds various caste systems.

Having "the advisory body of the whites/blacks/asians/indigenous/aboriginal/etcetera" enshrined in a constitution seems utterly bizarre to me. It enshrines that there's a specific difference between races, and some deserve more power over others. It's ratifying into law that different races have different privileges.

They state in the article that "it's been their home for 60,000 years". Am I crazy for thinking that's it's not been? It's been their home for 0-100 years, depending how old they are; same as non-native Australians. It's been their parents for 130 years perhaps, and their grandparents for maybe 160. When are we going to stop reaching back into ancient history to try and find power to use over one another, and focus on the power disparities of today's society which whirlpool around the sinkhole that is monetary wealth and try to seek equality there?

This is by no means an opinion I hold strongly, and I'm happy to be convinced out of it.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#28
post #6

It's the core concept of democracy. You lose, you are mostly out. You know, democracy.

"That people who have only been on this continent for 235 years would refuse to recognise those whose home this land has been for 60,000 and more years is beyond reason." Top quote the article...

Might is right. If they can not defend the land it's not theirs.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#29

Reconciliation is a concept that I've not been able to wrap my head around, and I'm interested whether anyone here has read books that have swayed them one way or the other that they could recommend, especially with what's happening in Israel and Palestine at the moment. In my eyes, it seems unreasonable for anyone in today's day and age to expect something from someone else based on the actions of their ancestors, o…

Genetics have nothing to do with it, it's more about culture and identity. These people see themselves as a separate people the same way Americans see themselves as separate from Canadians and Mexicans or how Californians see themselves as distinct from Texans and vice-versa.

They want that to be recognised in a similar way to how the Maori were recognised in New Zealand.

Re: 'Reconciliation is dead': Indigenous Australians vow silence as referendum fails

#30
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That people who have only been on this continent for 235 years would refuse to recognise those whose home this land has been for 60,000 and more years is beyond reason." Top quote the article...

It's possible to recognise them without giving them a special place in the constitution, thereby enshrining race in the constitution (the opposite of the concept of justice being blind to race).

It should be about culture, not race.
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