Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

thecodist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 73 posts

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#51

Post by gbalduzzi »

tl wrote: post #48
caipira wrote: post #22

As an old web developer myself, that surfed pretty much all the waves (No JS, just a Perl or PHP monolith, then JS with XMLHTTPRequest, jQuery, Backbone, Ember, WebPack, Angular 1 and finally React) this argument doesn't make sense. No, there isn't a new JS framework every minute. No, you don't need to learn a new thing everyday. There's really only 4 framerworks (React, Vue, Angular & Svelte, in this order), they pr…

Your argument is sound but it does not support your conclusion; react native is an example of “changing the base”. It is missing a significant chunk of HTML and CSS as an implementation detail. It is not an improvement, and I treat it as evidence that approach will not yield an improvement.

The whole thread is about web development though, React Native is not web development. It's app development in React/JS, there are similarities but it's definitely not web development

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#52

Post by progx »

_gabe_ wrote: post #45

What industry hasn’t changed tremendously since 2000? Look at Vulkan vs OpenGL 2. Or C++23 vs C++03. Or C# today vs C# in 2000. Or even Java today vs Java then. Or CPUs of today vs CPUs of 2000. Those gosh darned hardware engineers keep making this stuff overly complex! I find it funny when people from other domains complain about web development changing so quickly, when literally every other domain changes at about…

In many cases it is better not to use super complicated stack. It depends on the kind of project, how many people work with it, how it should be maintained, ...

But the problem is, that most people automatically think to use a framework (me also).

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#53

Post by progx »

omeraplak wrote: post #46
progx wrote: post #17

Starting a fresh new (internal) project in our company, no specs, no borders, we can use any JS lib, framework, tool, whatever. Now we stay like a kid in front of a candy shop and don't know what to choose. Anything has pros and cons, but nothing really convinces us. It seems that all candies look great but taste like spoiled fish. We are a small team and we don't have the time to update the app with every new versio…

The dilemma of choosing the right tool for a long-term project is understandable. We are running an open source React framework called refine for building Enterprise B2B apps like admin panels, internal tools and dashboard. It's designed to be ensuring that projects remain maintainable even as time goes by. With its headless architecture, it can be used with custom styles or any UI library and data services. Maybe it…

Thanks, will have a look at it.

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#54

Post by Kerrick »

sergiotapia wrote: post #33
Kerrick wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 years ago I was creating apps with Ember.js, which is still a current JS framework.

Respectfully Ember is not current at all. Might as well call BackboneJS or Marionette current as well.

Ember still has significant updates, it's still innovating alongside the best of them, it still has annual conferences, and the productivity a team gets by choosing Ember is still right alongside most popular frameworks for creating and maintain ambitious web applications. The same cannot be said for Backbone or Marionette.

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#55

Post by Kerrick »

ricenews wrote: post #28
malfist wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know man, I've seen frameworks rise, gain massive adoption and then be abandoned as everyone moves to the next hot thing. I watched everyone adopt AngularJS and then have to migrated to Angular 2.0 and then everyone migrated to React. During this time, the backend folks wrote java services using SpringBoot and then migrated to SpringBoot and then when that wasn't abandoned, moved to SpringBoot. Web developmen…

Meanwhile Ember has quietly improved and reinvented itself steadily over the last decade-plus, while maintaining compatibility responsibly the entire time. Sure it’s not always been on the cutting-edge (which I guess is why it lost its cachet) but its relative stability through fundamental reworking of its core have enabled me to happily maintain multiple SPAs that I started with as far back as 2015 when everyone was…

Most ironically, Ember's mascot is in fact a Hamster (well, a Tomster). :-)

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#56

Post by gbalduzzi »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #36
benjaminwootton wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like I stepped off frontend the treadmill and haven’t been able to catch up with frontend. React, Angular, Vue, Next, Nuxt, Svelte, Typsecript, Tailwind, Bundlers. It feels like a mountain to climb to get my head around that lot!

I don’t really understand why people seem to decouple learning from doing. Isn’t it possible to only learn what you need when you need it? It’s not like you even have to learn an entire framework/etc each time you run into a new one, just learn the specific part you need at that time. What am I missing?

But until you don't know something, you can't use it and, most importantly, you can't understand that you need it.

Like, how can you understand the tradeoffs between react, svelte or vanilla js until you have a basic knowledge of them?

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#57

Post by malfist »

mrsilencedogood wrote: post #23
malfist wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know man, I've seen frameworks rise, gain massive adoption and then be abandoned as everyone moves to the next hot thing. I watched everyone adopt AngularJS and then have to migrated to Angular 2.0 and then everyone migrated to React. During this time, the backend folks wrote java services using SpringBoot and then migrated to SpringBoot and then when that wasn't abandoned, moved to SpringBoot. Web developmen…

I'll just pile on my anecdote because I am a backend dev but want to make websites since apparently end users don't like reading and hand-composing JSON or something. A while ago, a few years I think, I learned react with class components. Hooks were never mentioned, so I don't know if they didn't exist yet or were in some nascent stage. I thought "huh neat this makes writing js not completely awful" - my only "front…

I completely agree with what you've said.

All I want to add is that today React is the winner, last week, backbone/ember was, week before that it was angular.

Even winners are transient and ephemeral.

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#58

Post by tstrimple »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #36
benjaminwootton wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like I stepped off frontend the treadmill and haven’t been able to catch up with frontend. React, Angular, Vue, Next, Nuxt, Svelte, Typsecript, Tailwind, Bundlers. It feels like a mountain to climb to get my head around that lot!

I don’t really understand why people seem to decouple learning from doing. Isn’t it possible to only learn what you need when you need it? It’s not like you even have to learn an entire framework/etc each time you run into a new one, just learn the specific part you need at that time. What am I missing?

This mentality is what leads to paint drip shaped people. It's a very good practice in my experience. Go just as deep as you need to solve the problem.

https://flowchainsensei.wordpress.com/2021/07/28/kent-becks-...

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#59

Post by pluscachange »

gbalduzzi wrote: post #56
pfannkuchen wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really understand why people seem to decouple learning from doing. Isn’t it possible to only learn what you need when you need it? It’s not like you even have to learn an entire framework/etc each time you run into a new one, just learn the specific part you need at that time. What am I missing?

But until you don't know something, you can't use it and, most importantly, you can't understand that you need it. Like, how can you understand the tradeoffs between react, svelte or vanilla js until you have a basic knowledge of them?

[dead]

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#60

Post by tstrimple »

gbalduzzi wrote: post #56
pfannkuchen wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really understand why people seem to decouple learning from doing. Isn’t it possible to only learn what you need when you need it? It’s not like you even have to learn an entire framework/etc each time you run into a new one, just learn the specific part you need at that time. What am I missing?

But until you don't know something, you can't use it and, most importantly, you can't understand that you need it. Like, how can you understand the tradeoffs between react, svelte or vanilla js until you have a basic knowledge of them?

If you're a front-end developer, it shouldn't take long to research the differences between modern front end frameworks. If you don't have any existing front-end skills, you won't have the ability to know what to dive into. True beginners need a solid foundation to build on, but once you have that foundation you should be able to adapt it to new and changing technology very easily. Once you have the foundation, you can dive as deep as you need into specific specialties and jump back out quite easily.

Learning your first programming language is hard. There's a lot of details and idiosyncrasies. The second is a bit easier because you have a base of experience to reference it against. By the time you're picking up your sixth language or front end framework or node API framework, you should be able to much more quickly assimilate the details because you've got so much more experience to draw on.

Post reply on HN