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Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

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Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#251

Post by xtracto »

bluehorizon2 wrote: post #26

People are forgetting why companies these days do Leetcode in the first place. The initial reason why we have Leetcode today is that Google originally determined through their interview research that the smartest candidates were the ones who were best at algorithms. Google wanted to hire the smartest people, not necessarily the best coders, so that’s why their interviews were mostly algorithmic. Of course everyone st…

I agree. You have to do the test that really relates to what you are looking for.

For backend web devs I'm hiring I established a modified version of a process that has worked for me well before:

1. Interact with a RESTA api and solve the problem by doing cURL requests and some lightweight string mangling and computation to generate key. Then submit the result with your BASE64 code in the request.

Your code is analyzed with ts-node (I look for TypeScript devs) and we check the validity of your generated key.

On success I get an email with the person info and the code. To follow up.

I give the url of the challenge to anyone whom I get their CV and seem interesting for the position. A lot of people disqualify themselves because they dont know a REST endpoint needs the correct content headers, or dont know how to send Auth Bearer token, etc.

Then I see the code, and if I like it, i send them a link to self book a 90hr interview. 30/50 mins are to talk about their experience, resumé in hand, and the rest is to make a version of the server to process the requests from the client they submitted. The problem is common knowledge for both of us, its basically what tgey will be doing, and it allows me to vouch for how they code. Mind, I dont care if we dont finish it, I just want to see if we can solve a problem together with the candidate driving.

And that's it. At the end of the interview I can tell them if I'm going to make them an offer .

I try to do interviews the way I'd like to be interviewed. I hate tech interviews, its stressful and seems pointless sometimes. Why would I do that to people who will be my peers? Bad taste.

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#252

Post by thefreeman »

xtracto wrote: post #251
bluehorizon2 wrote: post #26

People are forgetting why companies these days do Leetcode in the first place. The initial reason why we have Leetcode today is that Google originally determined through their interview research that the smartest candidates were the ones who were best at algorithms. Google wanted to hire the smartest people, not necessarily the best coders, so that’s why their interviews were mostly algorithmic. Of course everyone st…

I agree. You have to do the test that really relates to what you are looking for. For backend web devs I'm hiring I established a modified version of a process that has worked for me well before: 1. Interact with a RESTA api and solve the problem by doing cURL requests and some lightweight string mangling and computation to generate key. Then submit the result with your BASE64 code in the request. Your code is analyz…

sounds like a great process. are you hiring? email is in my profile.

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#253

Post by nextlevelwizard »

baka367 wrote: post #19
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you will have people watching you work and you will be under time pressure in normal work as well, so if you just turn to spagetti at interview are you actually going to perform any better at day to day?

When was the last time you had to nail out a fully working nlog(n) longest valid bracket sequence in to prod within 45 mins, without spending 3 weeks in meetings, design doc reviews, capacity plannings and allocations and alignments with the said bracket owners?

No one - literally no one - expects perfect implementation of anything in an interview, where are you even getting this notion? What actually *is* expected of you is to describe how you would approach the issue.

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#254

Post by nextlevelwizard »

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #28
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you will have people watching you work and you will be under time pressure in normal work as well, so if you just turn to spagetti at interview are you actually going to perform any better at day to day?

I literally never have anyone watching me code, and the time pressure of an interview is way shorter than a 2 week development cycle

So you have never worked in an office with other people?

And yes couple hours of interview is different than two weeks sprint, but you are very naive if you think two week of work days means 80 hours of work. Plus I expect a lot more from you during a sprint than during an interview. During an interview I am fine with pseudo code as long as you can explain what you want to do. During actual sprint I actually expect tested deliverables.

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#255

Post by nextlevelwizard »

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #25
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if this is what you meant, but to me this reads as: "I don't know anything about data structures or algorithms".

Not him but 1.) DS and Algo knowledge are way overrated in day-to-day job functions. I have yet to have to implement a single DS or Algo from those classes (they are almost always available to the framework, standard library, or language), runtime complexity has literally never once come up in my life, and the most I've ever needed to know about data structures is "which one should I use here?" and 99% of the time it…

Their point (to me) was that leetcode was hard and if they knew how to solve leetcode, they would apply for FAANG companies, but leetcode is just data structs and algorithms

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#256

Post by nextlevelwizard »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #34
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if this is what you meant, but to me this reads as: "I don't know anything about data structures or algorithms".

This reads to me as '90% of interviewers are incompetent at interviewing'. Most developers have no training in how to interview properly and little interest in learning, to most of them its a distraction and a bother. Most developers tend to ask questions about stuff they found challening or interesting, without consideration for how this related to the day to day job. Like asking a web developer to perform binary sh…

Yes. Communication is the biggest hurdle in any collaboration. I have not been part of multi stage interview process, so I don't know all problems there.

But my point was more that if you find leetcode hard-to-impossible on difficulty scale, it probably means you are self taught and didn't bother with data structures and algorithms lecture/book/video/course.

Again probably bad communication on my part.

Our interviews is slightly modified fizz buzz. What we are looking for is basic programming skills and ability to test your code. For take home also basic git usage.

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#257

Post by gambiting »

closeparen wrote: post #244
gambiting wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's just a formality, why not do it before you start the job then?

If it’s just a formality, why would you delay the new hire’s start by several weeks while it’s pending?

As an employer you wouldn't - but I don't understand how any employee agrees to starting before it's complete.

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#258

Post by tasuki »

joeframbach wrote: post #82
indymike wrote: post #69

We use this process, and it has helped us hire some great developers without having to use third party staffing and headhunters: 1. Post well written job post on major job boards. 2. Immediately reply via text to every applicant (yes, we have opt in on the application) 3. Initial screening including several knock-out questions via text. Immediately let candidate know if they are not selected and why. 4. 30 minute can…

I can bring my kids in but I don't think I could tell you how they work. I've been in this industry for almost 20 years, but I don't have side projects, because, well, see above.

I've never heard side projects should be recent or ongoing. How do you not have any side projects? Have you only ever programmed professionally?

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#259

Post by guappa »

mywittyname wrote: post #221
guappa wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also train for IQ tests.

People misunderstand the reason for this. Test takers can improve, but only up to a point, and only because they getting comfortable with the test format, not because they're getting any smarter. Solution: give the candidates a few practice tests first. This extends to every test though. My ACT score jumped massively on my second try. The reason: I didn't realize how much little time they gave test-takers, so I ran o…

You're certainly not getting smarter. It's the test format that is not very reliable.

Re: Interviews in the Age of AI: Ditch Leetcode – Try Code Reviews Instead

#260

Post by allo37 »

ziddoap wrote: post #249
physPop wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand your view. How do you improve your skill in the craft ? Or learn new technologies ? You wait for your employer to tell you to learn something ? That’s a sure fire way to always be behind the curve.

I don't understand how you reached that conclusion. If it is a personal interest or hobby, I do it on my own time. If it is something required for work, I do it on company time. If there is a lot of overlap, I do it whenever. Other than that, I learn and improve like any other person does. Continuing education credits, which is what started this subthread, is something required by the professional body that my compan…

Employers don't require their employees to be members of a professional order because they think professional orders are nifty- It's because certain jobs are only legally allowed to be performed by a member of said order. If you were a dentist and ran your own clinic, you'd still need to be a member of a professional order (at least in Canada and the US afaik) to practice dentistry legally, which would come with obligations outside of your usual working hours.

Software engineering exists in a sort of gray area where you can often be a professional software engineer without having to be a member of any order, which is great in many ways. But I feel like one could argue that the informal expectation of software engineers to care about software outside of their work is similar to what is expected in other professions with more rigid governing bodies.

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