Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 124 posts

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#101

Post by d1sxeyes »

haspok wrote: post #22

I find it amusing how they did not interview one single person who thought he or she might just choose a different way of transportation, instead of driving a car, unless absolutely necessary. I used to commute in the north between two mid-sized cities, and any time I checked taking the car instead of the combined bike+rail travel would not have been faster, only much more inconvenient and more expensive (parking cos…

I'm not that surprised I'm afraid. I am familiar with South Wales more than the rest of the country, but for many, many people, they live in small, former mining villages. If they're lucky, there's a bus or two every hour going to the nearest big city.

If you work outside the city, or in a different city, your commute skyrockets.

Additionally, many of these small villages only have very basic Nisa Today type newsagents/mini-markets, and the supermarkets are optimised for car travel, not bus (and certainly not scooter).

It's also a pretty deprived area, and a car, while expensive, is essentially a necessity. An e-bike would be an additional cost on top of the car. There are also considerations around the weather, etc.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#102

Post by sebstefan »

crote wrote: post #53
a-french-anon wrote: post #28

If only speed limits were designed so that breaking them always equates "reckless driving", and not sometimes (often, here) "driving at a completely normal speed considering the surrounding environment". inb4 pitchfork raising amongst the anti-car rabble

I completely agree. You can't enforce a speed limit by simply placing a speed sign and hoping everyone is going to magically follow them. More cops or speed cameras isn't going to work either. My city is currently working on a plan to lower the speed limit from 50kmh to 30kmh (30 mph to 18 mph). The entire thing is a multi-year program because it essentially means redesigning those roads from scratch. A road which ha…

>More cops or speed cameras isn't going to work either.

That's just wishful thinking. You probably wished they didn't so you could make that point, but they 100% work :)

They have the benefit of not slowing down emergency vehicles too!

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#103

Post by gniv »

lynx23 wrote: post #54
gniv wrote: post #33

The towns in the part of France where I am also have this limit (30kmh). Hardly anyone obeys it of course. But it's interesting how they try to enforce it. On small roads they install speed humps and/or alternative-side parking. On through roads they cannot do that, since they would slow down emergency vehicles. So they put those fyi radars, which don't seem to have any effect anymore. The real automated camera+radar…

> Hardly anyone obeys it of course. Isn't is wonderful how vehicle owners are entitled to break the law, and nobody seems to care? Driving drunk, ignoring the speed limit, are all actions that directly endanger unrelated citizens. And all that vehicle operators have to say is "of course".

The most frustrating is that buses don't respect it either. If they were to try to enforce it strictly there would be protests I'm sure.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#104

Post by CalRobert »

thereisnospork wrote: post #62
CalRobert wrote: post #14

As much as the comments from complaining drivers are frustrating, it reveals that the problem here is relying on speed limits and not street design. If you want drivers to go 20mph, you need to design the street so going any faster feels uncomfortable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bglWCuCMSWc discuses this. Also, I notice that most of those drivers complaining don't address what it's like to have a small child who…

I would add to your point that streets should be designed to the highest speed and throughput practical[0] for their locale. It's an obvious source of 'driver frustration' when the apparent objective of these changes is to add friction to transport. No one likes having to dodge speed bumps, or being stuck in traffic on a 'calmed' street. [0] which needs to be supported by e.g. separated bike lanes, well marked and si…

I must admit I found your comment jarring at first, but I don't think we really disagree except on details. I enjoy driving fast in wide open spaces (through farmland on the autobahn for instance).

But (and I think you see this) there is a key difference between a street and a road - a _street_ most definitely _should_ have things to slow drivers, because the faster the cars go, the less pleasant it is for anyone not in a car. Nobody likes walking next to 80 kph traffic. But if a system is well designed the only reason you're driving on a street is because it's your destination, and not something you're using to get somewhere else.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#106

Post by soco »

lynx23 wrote: post #100
soco wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say that's lack of enforcement "of course". And I really couldn't care less about people now claiming "ohh but that's stupid" - it's your country, vote against those speed measures if you don't like them. Or just follow them, because your own mates and not some reptilians voted for them.

I am a pedestrian. I am the one put in danger by reckless vehicle owners. No surprise that you "couldn't care less". Do you even realize that there is a demographic of people who don't own nor operate a car?

Could it be you are answering to a different comment? Edit to rehash my point: drivers will say they don't follow the speed limits because "they are stupid" but all in general, if somebody thinks a rule is stupid they shouldn't keep voting for the creators of said rules. Ignoring rules should be punished and there's an obvious lack on this side, if the people can safely ignore rules they aren't really rules are they. Anyway having those speeding rules means you as pedestrian seem to have a majority right now, and if somebody wants to fight against that majority they should motivate a different majority. All democratic innit.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#109

Post by anonymous_sorry »

tialaramex wrote: post #99
anonymous_sorry wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Named thematically with pelican crossings (originally pelicon crossings - PEdestrian LIght CONtrolled), since phased out.

All London's crossings, which tourists are more likely to be familiar with, are Pelicans, although sometimes modified with countdown timers in busy areas. London doesn't use Puffins by policy, I'm not sure exactly why - in very high density areas I can see that the Puffin features aren't helpful, but that doesn't explain a full policy. [Differences: A Puffin's cross/ don't cross indication is local, your side of the…

There are definitely puffin crossings in London. But I think you're right - central London tends to have pelicans. The policy must not apply throughout greater London though.

Sometimes in the west end you'll have a hundred people waiting to cross - higher pedestrian signals on the other side of the road are probably more visible to everyone in that situation. And I guess it's helpful if crossings are consistent in an area: particularly in areas with lots of visitors.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#110

Post by tialaramex »

anonymous_sorry wrote: post #109
tialaramex wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All London's crossings, which tourists are more likely to be familiar with, are Pelicans, although sometimes modified with countdown timers in busy areas. London doesn't use Puffins by policy, I'm not sure exactly why - in very high density areas I can see that the Puffin features aren't helpful, but that doesn't explain a full policy. [Differences: A Puffin's cross/ don't cross indication is local, your side of the…

There are definitely puffin crossings in London. But I think you're right - central London tends to have pelicans. The policy must not apply throughout greater London though. Sometimes in the west end you'll have a hundred people waiting to cross - higher pedestrian signals on the other side of the road are probably more visible to everyone in that situation. And I guess it's helpful if crossings are consistent in an…

To be fair, if huge numbers of people want to cross, it's actually mere politeness which keeps them from just doing it. If you just walk into a busy street, you'd perhaps be hit by a car and injured or killed, but, if a hundred people do it the cars are forced to stop by the literal weight of the obstacles.

I remember thinking about this on my way back from a London fireworks display (Richmond maybe? Somewhere that way) because obviously an entire crowd of thousands want to cross a street suddenly and they're not going to politely queue up and wait for light changes, they just all cross, because there's nothing car drivers can do about it. A few minutes away, with the crowds dispersed, it was necessary to actually use crossings, but outside the park where thousands of people had just watched the display a crossing was completely superfluous.

Post reply on HN