Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone? • Hacker News Board

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#51

Post by amanzi » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 8:35 AM UTC

Paul_S wrote: post #7

UK over the years has been destroying something immensely valuable that you can't get back quickly. For example, there are barely any speed cameras on local roads in the UK (compared to other European countries) and yet almost everyone drives under the limit. It's the same with police not needing guns. I think people just don't understand how valuable (and unusual) this is. Edit: As has been pointed out to me, there…

The UK has tons of speed cameras and people certainly don't drive under the limit due to free will. Most GPS units display where the speed cameras are located so UK drivers know where to speed and where not to.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#52

Post by isoprophlex » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 8:36 AM UTC

simonbarker87 wrote: post #32

beardyw wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s quite annoying having cameras everywhere frankly. Why?

Because drivers should be trusted to drive to the conditions. Those that speed stupidly will do so regardless of cameras (they will just slow down when they see one which actually makes things more dangerous) and those that drive to the conditions will speed when they believe it’s safe to do so and won’t speed when it’s not safe to do so, which means cameras are actually making driving less safe because they need to…

I agree, for roads clearly separated from pedestrians and cyclists. You can barely see what's around the next corner on those fenced in country roads, you'd be insane to drive 60 mph even tho that's the speed limit.

In residential areas however I'm totally fine with low limits + many cameras. A collision with a pedestrian at 20 mph might be survivable, at 40 it's a death sentence. And in residential areas, on well-asphalted straight roads, people will speed like maniacs.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#53

Post by crote » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 8:36 AM UTC

a-french-anon wrote: post #28

If only speed limits were designed so that breaking them always equates "reckless driving", and not sometimes (often, here) "driving at a completely normal speed considering the surrounding environment". inb4 pitchfork raising amongst the anti-car rabble

I completely agree.

You can't enforce a speed limit by simply placing a speed sign and hoping everyone is going to magically follow them. More cops or speed cameras isn't going to work either.

My city is currently working on a plan to lower the speed limit from 50kmh to 30kmh (30 mph to 18 mph). The entire thing is a multi-year program because it essentially means redesigning those roads from scratch.

A road which has been designed for its speed limit doesn't even need a speed sign - the driver will naturally be driving at that speed already because anything faster will feel unsafe to the driver.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#54

Post by lynx23 » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 8:36 AM UTC

gniv wrote: post #33

The towns in the part of France where I am also have this limit (30kmh). Hardly anyone obeys it of course. But it's interesting how they try to enforce it. On small roads they install speed humps and/or alternative-side parking. On through roads they cannot do that, since they would slow down emergency vehicles. So they put those fyi radars, which don't seem to have any effect anymore. The real automated camera+radar…

> Hardly anyone obeys it of course.

Isn't is wonderful how vehicle owners are entitled to break the law, and nobody seems to care? Driving drunk, ignoring the speed limit, are all actions that directly endanger unrelated citizens. And all that vehicle operators have to say is "of course".

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#55

Post by hardware2win » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 8:37 AM UTC

p0w3n3d wrote: post #25

Every car sold at the moment lowers the speed shown on the speedometer algorithmically. Therefore I can believe that although 20mph=32kph and I have problems reaching 32kph constantly on a gravel bike - when cars go 20mph they will go probably around 27kph which is the speed I can maintain on my bicycle. For something different - cars going at slow speeds emit more fumes and consume more fuel.

>Every car sold at the moment lowers the speed shown on the speedometer algorithmically

Your example increases speed shown

20mph shown and 32kmph being base means that

20mph shown and 27kmph being actual means shown is increased?

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#56

Post by isoprophlex » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 8:37 AM UTC

Paul_S wrote: post #47

isoprophlex wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What?! I experienced this vastly differently. I drove from Dover to Lands' End and back this year, and the route was absolutely riddled with speed cams, compared to the Netherlands.

I should clarify, there are cameras on motorways but hardly any on local roads where the 20 speed limit is used. Also, all cameras are signposted and there are obvious lines on the road so you can see exactly where the measurement is taken.

Ah right. Yeah we had a good laugh about that, why put up so many if you make it so easy to spot them?!

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#57

Post by sebstefan » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 8:37 AM UTC

gniv wrote: post #33

The towns in the part of France where I am also have this limit (30kmh). Hardly anyone obeys it of course. But it's interesting how they try to enforce it. On small roads they install speed humps and/or alternative-side parking. On through roads they cannot do that, since they would slow down emergency vehicles. So they put those fyi radars, which don't seem to have any effect anymore. The real automated camera+radar…

I'm french as well and I despise how the 30km/h limit is rarely obeyed

I'd just put speed cams until they stop paying for themselves and then use the following year's funds to narrow the worst of these roads.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#58

Post by alexfoo » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 8:37 AM UTC

Paul_S wrote: post #47

isoprophlex wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What?! I experienced this vastly differently. I drove from Dover to Lands' End and back this year, and the route was absolutely riddled with speed cams, compared to the Netherlands.

I should clarify, there are cameras on motorways but hardly any on local roads where the 20 speed limit is used. Also, all cameras are signposted and there are obvious lines on the road so you can see exactly where the measurement is taken.

There are three speed cameras in 20mph limits near me in my area of London. Whenever I'm near them I see someone flashed by them about once every 5 minutes (one is opposite a bus stop that I often wait at).

It's surprising just how many people will continue to speed past these very visible cameras.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#59

Post by phero_cnstrcts » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 8:38 AM UTC

simonbarker87 wrote: post #32

beardyw wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s quite annoying having cameras everywhere frankly. Why?

Because drivers should be trusted to drive to the conditions. Those that speed stupidly will do so regardless of cameras (they will just slow down when they see one which actually makes things more dangerous) and those that drive to the conditions will speed when they believe it’s safe to do so and won’t speed when it’s not safe to do so, which means cameras are actually making driving less safe because they need to…

Plus you’d be constantly looking a the speedometer and not the road.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#60

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 8:38 AM UTC

p0w3n3d wrote: post #25

Every car sold at the moment lowers the speed shown on the speedometer algorithmically. Therefore I can believe that although 20mph=32kph and I have problems reaching 32kph constantly on a gravel bike - when cars go 20mph they will go probably around 27kph which is the speed I can maintain on my bicycle. For something different - cars going at slow speeds emit more fumes and consume more fuel.

> Every car sold at the moment lowers the speed shown on the speedometer algorithmically.

? Do you mean "raises"?

The legal requirement is that it MUST NOT under-report your speed. So generally they over-read by about 10% compared to GPS ground track speed measurement.