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Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#41

Post by a-french-anon »

_dain_ wrote: post #34
a-french-anon wrote: post #28

If only speed limits were designed so that breaking them always equates "reckless driving", and not sometimes (often, here) "driving at a completely normal speed considering the surrounding environment". inb4 pitchfork raising amongst the anti-car rabble

>inb4 pitchfork raising amongst the anti-car rabble I don't know why you think anti-car people would raise pitchforks at that. In fact this was my criticism of the proposal when I lived in Wales; there seemed to be little attempt to alter the street environments to match the lower limits. I want effective 20 mph zones and that can't happen just by changing a few speed limit signs. My prediction was that it would back…

Because for some of them, the right speed limit is 0 kmh/mph aka "total car death".

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#42

Post by mjg59 »

There are numerous references to increased congestion as a result of the reduced speed limits in built-up areas, but the UK has a fairly strong "You should always be 2 seconds behind the car in front" element to driving rules, and naively if there's two seconds between every car then the number of cars passing a particular point in a given amount of time is going to be the same regardless of how fast they're travelling, so is there a real model where a lower speed limit reduces throughput in a meaningful way without violating this constraint?

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#43

Post by pjc50 »

haspok wrote: post #22

I find it amusing how they did not interview one single person who thought he or she might just choose a different way of transportation, instead of driving a car, unless absolutely necessary. I used to commute in the north between two mid-sized cities, and any time I checked taking the car instead of the combined bike+rail travel would not have been faster, only much more inconvenient and more expensive (parking cos…

Wales manages to have both bad public transport and bad roads and bad weather and bad parking. Perhaps the speed limit drop is intended to "nudge" people, but I'm not convinced the alternatives are quite so ready yet.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#44

Post by gumballindie »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #32
beardyw wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s quite annoying having cameras everywhere frankly. Why?

Because drivers should be trusted to drive to the conditions. Those that speed stupidly will do so regardless of cameras (they will just slow down when they see one which actually makes things more dangerous) and those that drive to the conditions will speed when they believe it’s safe to do so and won’t speed when it’s not safe to do so, which means cameras are actually making driving less safe because they need to…

I’d say considering the state of many roads speeding wont be an issue anyway.

My issue is with the government being literarily _everywhere_ to the point where it’s creepy.

It really only shows that either the british society is in fact quite “uncivilised” and requires massive amounts of policing in order to “behave” or that the frog is getting boiled for something bigger.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#45

Post by jorlow »

I don't know either way whether 20mph makes sense in places like Wales, but at least in central London I think the shift to 20mph speed limits is great. Based on what I've seen, I'd be shocked if it isn't providing a meaningful improvement in safety for cyclists and pedestrians and lowering the severity when there is a car crash. And it seems like it also provides an extra nudge towards people using public transit rather than driving/ubering.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#46

Post by sebstefan »

a-french-anon wrote: post #28

If only speed limits were designed so that breaking them always equates "reckless driving", and not sometimes (often, here) "driving at a completely normal speed considering the surrounding environment". inb4 pitchfork raising amongst the anti-car rabble

Anti-car people are also in favor of narrowing roads and making them physically harder to navigate to force drivers to respect the speed limit

>a-french-anon

20 miles per hour is 32km/h, 2 above the french residential limit of 30km/h

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#47

Post by Paul_S »

isoprophlex wrote: post #35
Paul_S wrote: post #7

UK over the years has been destroying something immensely valuable that you can't get back quickly. For example, there are barely any speed cameras on local roads in the UK (compared to other European countries) and yet almost everyone drives under the limit. It's the same with police not needing guns. I think people just don't understand how valuable (and unusual) this is. Edit: As has been pointed out to me, there…

What?! I experienced this vastly differently. I drove from Dover to Lands' End and back this year, and the route was absolutely riddled with speed cams, compared to the Netherlands.

I should clarify, there are cameras on motorways but hardly any on local roads where the 20 speed limit is used. Also, all cameras are signposted and there are obvious lines on the road so you can see exactly where the measurement is taken.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#49

Post by eastbound »

haspok wrote: post #22

I find it amusing how they did not interview one single person who thought he or she might just choose a different way of transportation, instead of driving a car, unless absolutely necessary. I used to commute in the north between two mid-sized cities, and any time I checked taking the car instead of the combined bike+rail travel would not have been faster, only much more inconvenient and more expensive (parking cos…

If you compare train on a train-direct path, then there will be no other winner than trains. But I can make the same demonstration with planes: “If I live in Paris, how can I go to work in New York every morning? See, the Concorde is necessary.” More seriously: “If I live in suburbia, how can I change jobs in the city for a job which is not on the same train line?”

It’s all about finding words to sustain one’s idea, not about caring for the lowlys.

> Today we have e-bikes and scooters, so hilly terrain is not a problem anymore

ebikes average at $100pm. I’m sure you will contradict me with lowballing, but there are also people for whom it’s much more expensive. And if you live with normal people, there are no bikes that you can keep secure at home or at work - we’re not all bourgeois with safe garages.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#50

Post by simonbarker87 »

maxehmookau wrote: post #30

As a cyclist (and a driver) in a city in England; this can't come to the rest of the UK fast enough. I see it as a failure of public policy, and a necessary result. Our streets are not designed for safe cycling and our public transport infrastructure is poor, at best. So the only way we can improve safety for cyclists and pedestrians is to reduce speed limits for cars across the board. The political will to improve r…

I’m a cyclist and disagree, given most urban bike vs car crashes happen way below 30 mph changing the speed limit won’t make a difference.

What would make a difference is teaching people to cycle on the road confidently and correctly (eg taking the full lane when required) and also adding a cycling component to learning to drive to give drivers more empathy for cyclists.

Both of these are too big to tackle so instead the solution is to blame speed and treat people like children.

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