Live data from Hacker News

NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

tomshardware.com

81–90 of 111 posts

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#81
post #48

A lot of people forget that the word "press" in the phrase "freedom of the press" refers to an actual printing press, not the modern term that people confuse for corporate journalism. The 3D printing presses should remain equally free. If and when someone commits a crime with a piece of technology, that is when to charge them. We should not normalize the presumption of criminal intent, nor restrict even those that ha…

> A lot of people forget that the word "press" in the phrase "freedom of the press" refers to an actual printing press, not the modern term that people confuse for corporate journalism. Can you cite that? It's pretty clear that freedom of "speech" isn't limited to literal verbal speech. I'm not sure I've ever seen the suggestion that the authors of the constitution were overly concerned with the literal mechanism of…

You're conflating "freedom of speech" with "freedom of the press". Speech, of course covers the conveyance of ideas in all forms. Why was it important to also call out "freedom of the press" separately then, if speech was already mentioned? Presses were large, expensive, exclusive tools for a long period of time. It would be trivial to control the types of essays, books, newspapers and papers that could be published and distributed by simply slapping a fine or attaching a civil penalty to the mere act of publishing controversial material. In fact the Alien and Sedition Acts that cost the Federalists their existence in American politics were largely seen to be unconstitutional, and made the mere printing of seditious material an exportable offense, although the act was repealed so quickly it was never tried at Supreme Court.

The word press quite literally meant printing press. People did not refer to journalists specifically as "the press" until around 1868: https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/short-reads/art...

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#82
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of people forget that the word "press" in the phrase "freedom of the press" refers to an actual printing press, not the modern term that people confuse for corporate journalism. Can you cite that? It's pretty clear that freedom of "speech" isn't limited to literal verbal speech. I'm not sure I've ever seen the suggestion that the authors of the constitution were overly concerned with the literal mechanism of…

You're conflating "freedom of speech" with "freedom of the press". Speech, of course covers the conveyance of ideas in all forms. Why was it important to also call out "freedom of the press" separately then, if speech was already mentioned? Presses were large, expensive, exclusive tools for a long period of time. It would be trivial to control the types of essays, books, newspapers and papers that could be published…

I’m not conflating anything. I’m drawing a comparison, and asking you to back up why you think “the press” literally means “the printing press, as an object” in a way that would somehow extend to “3d printers”, rather than the concept of printing and distributing news and information.

You’re the one who keeps bringing up the terms journalists and journalism. It’s not clear to me why the constitution predating those terms implies that “press” was meant literally.

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in a major city and not once have I come across a violent crime using a 3D printed part. Most firearms used are stolen in the areas we have homicides. This legislation doesn’t make sense.

While I don't think the legislation make sense, I don't think it's not a problem. Here's some statistics: > Last year, police departments seized at least 25,785 ghost guns nationwide, the Justice Department said recently, and those are just the weapons submitted by police to ATF for tracing, even though they don’t have serial numbers and largely cannot be traced. > In 2021, the number of guns recovered was 19,344, me…

At least where I live, the vast majority "ghost guns" that are getting used for crimes are polymer80 glocks that can be built with just a drill, no 3d printing required.

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#84
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let us be clear here I'm down voting because that much of dripping sarcasm just gets people emotional and doesn't help anything. Feel free to make a cohesive argument one way or another:). Long sarcasm tirades assume other side is wrong and stupid and aren't helpful. (I'm on your side, btw fwiw! But I still don't like dripping sarcasm insinuating other perspectives are clearly stupid!:)

No possible defense of 3D printer restrictions could be made, except by an idiot or someone trolling. There are no smart people against 3D printing we will be offending with sarcasm.

but what if we took an originalist perspective and allow people to have an unlimited number of 3D printed muzzle loaders as that was the weapon available at the time.

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#85

A lot of people forget that the word "press" in the phrase "freedom of the press" refers to an actual printing press, not the modern term that people confuse for corporate journalism. The 3D printing presses should remain equally free. If and when someone commits a crime with a piece of technology, that is when to charge them. We should not normalize the presumption of criminal intent, nor restrict even those that ha…

Printers and scanners are already regulated to not print very authentic copies of dollars. Maybe we could do the same with 3D printers?

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#87
Why not target the ammunition instead? After all, guns don't kill people. Bullets kill people.

And ammunition can't be printed and can't be made out of plastic. You can make it yourself yes but it's also possible to make a rudimentary gun from regular metal parts.

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#88
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating "freedom of speech" with "freedom of the press". Speech, of course covers the conveyance of ideas in all forms. Why was it important to also call out "freedom of the press" separately then, if speech was already mentioned? Presses were large, expensive, exclusive tools for a long period of time. It would be trivial to control the types of essays, books, newspapers and papers that could be published…

I’m not conflating anything. I’m drawing a comparison, and asking you to back up why you think “the press” literally means “the printing press, as an object” in a way that would somehow extend to “3d printers”, rather than the concept of printing and distributing news and information. You’re the one who keeps bringing up the terms journalists and journalism. It’s not clear to me why the constitution predating those t…

Quite simply, because in 1789, "the press" meant the printing press. I pointed to historical references when that began to pivot to mean more broadly "journalism" in general, but in 1789, the printing press was the only meaning "the press" carried at the time.

They of course couldn't have envisioned alternative mediums that the "press" might alternatively refer to. They couldn't have predicted radio, television, and the internet as alternative forms of "publication". There was the spoken word and the written word and that's all there was for thousands of years. The press simply made the written word more scalable.

I understand that Constitutional rights are interpreted by Courts to carry meaning through progressions in technology or society norms. Clearly the spirit of the "freedom of the press" is partly an implied "right to publish" as you say, and as the 9th amendment underscores, the enumeration of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

There is no mention of "distributing news and information" with regards to "freedom of the press" in the Constitution. It simply says that Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of the press. It doesn't justify it or give a reason for it. It's held to be self evident. It should be understood that the U.S. was founded on the principle of "liberty by default". There is no need to justify liberty. The purpose of the bill of rights was to provide extra protections against the egregiousness of government, to preserve liberty, but not to box it in and define it for all time to mean "these specific things."

Clearly the founders couldn't foresee the advent of 3D printing, either. However, milling machines and molds very much did exist. It would be equally unthinkable to the founders to enable the government to restrict the usage of mills and molds on the basis that they might be used to produce arms (another right they saw fit to enumerate), as it would be to restrict 3D printing.

On the basis of the 1st, 2nd, and 9th amendments, and the principles of liberty itself; the 3D printing press should remain as equally free as the 2D printing press.

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#89
post #24

Chris Rock solved this ages ago: "We don't have a gun problem, we have a bullet problem." Make bullets very expensive and hard to get. It makes much more sense to control the supply of gunpowder (and bullets) than that of 3d printers (or guns for that matter).

I don't think that would solve anything. If a criminal is willing to get a gun by illegal means, why wouldn't they be willing to do the same for ammunition?

Yes but the proposed legislation doesn't really address illegal procurement of real guns either.

Re: NY Bill Would Require Background Checks to Buy 3D Printers

#90

You wouldn’t print a car, would you?

I saw a printing shop that did exactly that :)

But I know what you're referring to, the stupid copyright ads on DVD.

Just saying that printing a car isn't actually science fiction anymore. Cost effective? No. But possible.

Post reply on HN