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Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

phys.org

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Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#131

Post by DoreenMichele »

Roundup is a glyphosate-based herbicide used to control weeds and other pests. Because it is supposed to break down in the environment within a few days to weeks, its use is relatively under-regulated by most public health agencies. But when glyphosate encounters certain trace metal ions that make water hard—like magnesium and calcium—glyphosate-metal ion complexes can form. Those complexes can persist up to seven years in water and 22 years in soil.

Similarly: International aid groups dug wells in Pakistan to alleviate sickness from contaminated surface waters, such as rain water collection. It was successful and dramatically reduced incidence of illness and death from that cause.

It also led to widespread arsenic poisoning from many of the wells.

Actually improving things is tough and even if you succeed, people will focus primarily on any unintended and undesirable consequences. People almost never mention that the wells in Pakistan achieved the intended goal and I full well expect to be met with open hostility and accusations of some sort (apologist, downplaying).

There may well be good reasons to not be more even handed in presenting such info. Or there may not be.

When we start with a presumption of guilt and looking for someone to blame for presumed intentional malice, it frequently interferes with moving towards solutions. Even if you can find someone to blame and successfully indict, it typically doesn't fix the problem.

Few people focus on fixing the problem and trying to discuss solutions is often met with vastly more hostility than finger pointing.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#132

Post by zzzeek »

user3939382 wrote: post #59

Remember when Bayer (who now owns Monsanto) intentionally sold HIV infected blood in South America? The people that own these companies would sell their own grandmother for $5. They’re poisoning the world, as science and litigation they couldn’t buy their way out of has evidenced, and we get people on here “hacktually”ing their defense. Glyphosate is used for only one reason, it’s profitable for Monsanto.

following that, the most prevalent use for GM crops is herbicide tolerance, where glyphosate is the most common herbicide targeted [1].

If you posted on Hacker News eight years ago that you thought it was a good idea for GM foods to be labeled, you'd be roundly mocked with all the data showing genetic modification is safe (as I'm sure is about to happen here anyway).

That was never what the debate was about and it was a straw man. The debate was over things like this. Why GM was being pushed so hard, by whom, and what that genetic modification implies about the food its associated with. Consumers should have the right to opt out, or at least be aware, of when they are participating in these agricultural markets.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_crops#Gly...

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#133

Post by algoatecorn »

diogenescynic wrote: post #79

If you discuss this on the internet, shills come out of the woodwork immediately to promote glyphosate. I've never seen such astroturfing for any other topic. For example, there are a handful of super user accounts on reddit that pop up at all hours and only discuss this topic and use extremely well researched talking points and citations.

Except astroturfing is coordinated. It's not a conspiracy. The shills you mention are just people who are well-informed on nuanced topic. A topic that that seemingly affects everyone (because food), and therefore everyone chimes in.

Except most people don't know jack about modern food systems and its history. All they know is: big pharma bad, big ag bad, big food bad.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#134

Post by m00x »

thghtihadanacct wrote: post #127
permalac wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use it to kill the driveway weeds, works like a charm.

Well, let us know if/when you or your kids get kidney disease or any of the other listed diseases associated with it. I feel knowing the dangers and using it anyway should auto opt-out one out of the class action settlement. Ever try a weed eater or gloves? Gasoline would work just as well, probably less toxic

You're a lot less likely to get roundup in your system from killing weeds outside than eating vegetables and fruits that have been bathed in it.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#135

Post by squidbeak »

mvdtnz wrote: post #65
LesZedCB wrote: post #18

it's doubly stupid because you can eat dandelions which are one of the many "weeds" people kill with this shit to protect their useless-at-best lawns. kill your lawn. plant native shit.

The amount of glyphosate being used in lawns is not contributing to glyphosate in water supplies. We're discussing industrial scales here.

You're making an undue assumption here that exposure to it in your garden won't also give you kidney disease.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#136

Post by eclipticplane »

profsummergig wrote: post #89
algoatecorn wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Has anyone here tried the bespoke home-made weed-icide made with vinegar + salt + dish-soap? If yes, was it effective? A cursory google search suggests the internet is divided on this.

Often times you're reaching for herbicides to get rid of plants that are otherwise hard to get rid of. Those same plants are ones that thrive in poor soils and conditions. Adding salt will just make the soil even worse for plants you _want_ to grow.

I've tried almost every home remedy available combatting Japanese Knotweed for years, and targeted glyphosate and careful mechanical removal are the only methods that even make a dent.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#137

Post by isk517 »

whalesalad wrote: post #27
Nicksil wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is fluoride in drinking water toxic? I thought they added it on purpose to help our teeth or something No, not toxic; you are correct.

the real debate is on whether the toxicity of fluoride outweighs the benefits of using it to prevent tooth decay. we know that it can cause issues. there are also issues that have not been measured. a lot of folks forget that unless the outcome of X is death or cancer etc ... it is often not studied. your quality of life can be greatly reduced by something but if it doesn't kill you then no one is looking at it.

Tooth decay can cause a whole litany of issues so it really is a weighing of pros and cons versus the long term effects of fluoride consumption.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#138

Post by thebiss »

profsummergig wrote: post #89
algoatecorn wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Has anyone here tried the bespoke home-made weed-icide made with vinegar + salt + dish-soap? If yes, was it effective? A cursory google search suggests the internet is divided on this.

Yes, I have close family that relies upon this method to clear weeds from between brick pavers. "Divided" describes my position well: the vinegar kills some of it, but the walk never gets fully clear. Contrast that with round-up, which would cause the weeds to whither and fall out and leave it clear for a few months.

It definitely smells better than round-up, and you don't have to think twice about it affecting pets...

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#139

Post by m00x »

tivert wrote: post #123
user3939382 wrote: post #59

Remember when Bayer (who now owns Monsanto) intentionally sold HIV infected blood in South America? The people that own these companies would sell their own grandmother for $5. They’re poisoning the world, as science and litigation they couldn’t buy their way out of has evidenced, and we get people on here “hacktually”ing their defense. Glyphosate is used for only one reason, it’s profitable for Monsanto.

> Glyphosate is used for only one reason, it’s profitable for Monsanto. It's used because it's effective broad-spectrum herbicide. My understanding it's quite a bit less toxic than its predecessors, and I understand there's no equivalent replacement on the horizon. IIRC, the problem was they marketed it as practically non toxic to humans, which is definitely not the case.

So far, there is monumental evidence that it's non-toxic to humans at normal doses. This study doesn't prove it's toxic.

It only introduces the aspect that it might be associated to kidney disease.

Everything is toxic to humans at the right dose, even water.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#140

Post by trgn »

imglorp wrote: post #22
candiddevmike wrote: post #2

Glyphosate is being found in US drinking water too: - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5486281/ - https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/risk/... The common message is Glyphosate has a very short (ish) half life in soil. What happens when it enters the water table first?

Linked to Parkinsons and cancer. And it's still for sale next to fertilizer in the home box store so you can spray your yard and poison your family.

This is the mirage.

Seeing roundup on shelves at home depot casts a spell. Because it is, it must.

There is no reason for pesticides for residential use. The virginal lawn is an aesthetic and just that. Fads and aspirations can change. Some aspirations are vile, some are virtuous. So let's ban it there. Then, some years after, when that hypnotic waft from the orgiastic excess of Roundup bottles at the garden center has evaporated, let's see how many people will still be carrying water for its industrial use.

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