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Post-truth society is near

mindprison.cc

21–30 of 89 posts

Re: Post-truth society is near

#21

There is so much baseless hysteria about this subject. If society actually cared about this issue (spoiler, it doesn't), we already have all the required cryptographic tools (PKI, trusted timestamping, remote attestation) to create/record verifiably sourced content. Nobody really cares though. But people sure do like to whine about it.

"Nobody cares" is the important part. The most recent X-Files reboot did an episode on this. The age of conspiracies is over; governments don't have to kill people to protect secrets because they can just dump them in public and nobody has any idea what to believe anymore.

It's not that people don't know what to believe. They'll just believe what already confirms their worldview.

Indoctrinating children is the battleground. Kind of always has been though.

Re: Post-truth society is near

#22
post #4
post #2

Uh... Post-truth has been here awhile. They’ve had the capacity to fake/alter live events for decades now.

"Some will make the argument “But isn’t this simply the same problems we already deal with today?”. It is; however, the ability to produce fake content is getting exponentially cheaper while the ability to detect fake content is not improving. As long as fake content was somewhat expensive, difficult to produce, and contained detectable digital artifacts, it at least could be somewhat managed." Yes, indeed. However,…

I guess my question is if that actually makes things worse. The people who were likely to believe falsehoods unquestioningly probably already do. How much does the ease of making new convincing falsehoods ensnare new people vs. causing the wary to just get paranoid and unlikely to believe things without overwhelming evidence?

At some point, getting people to believe things, let alone care about them, is already something that is generally known to hit diminishing returns, mostly in terms of reach. The percentage of the population that even is following wherever you're posting your fake content isn't 100%, even if you're so convincing that it gets onto major news sources.

Post-truth always feels like it's brought up as "And then anarchy follows", but it's unclear to me that it's that different than what things were like in pre-internet society where "fake news" was just someone in your town telling you something they'd heard from someone the town over about something happening hundreds of miles away. It can be a regression, but it's unclear to me that it's necessarily worse for people, since it's not clear to me that the fact that I know about some natural disaster in Laos is good or important.

Re: Post-truth society is near

#23

There is so much baseless hysteria about this subject. If society actually cared about this issue (spoiler, it doesn't), we already have all the required cryptographic tools (PKI, trusted timestamping, remote attestation) to create/record verifiably sourced content. Nobody really cares though. But people sure do like to whine about it.

How do cryptographic tools help against fake imagery?

Re: Post-truth society is near

#24
Post-truth society has already arrived in the mid-2010's. Making fake content was never expensive or difficult to produce to begin with. Misinformation is already expensive to tackle and in many cases nearly undetectable without invasive data collection. Generative AI doesn't change the equation and was never a requirement to successfully manipulate public opinon. Hell, most of these problems with misinformation are probably as old as the emergence of sedentary human societies.

Also, what's up with throwing some random unsourced statement about robotics/replicants in the middle of an article?

Re: Post-truth society is near

#26
post #8

There is absolutely no chance whatsoever that robots that are so real they are indistinguishable from people will come about in our lifetimes. The amount of breathless speculation since OpenAI released a kind-of-decent text completion program is so far beyond ridiculous at this point.

The first sentence is true, but the second raises the question: are we so gullible that the robots don't need to be indistinguishable in order to fool most people?

While the tech is great, if anything I feel like what OpenAI has revealed to us is that we're still a bunch of superstitious apes that are just not cognitively equipped to reason about what we've created.

It feels like a new age of religion is dawning in which we construct myths about the tools we build, instead of myths about the forces of nature. At one point we blamed bad weather on the gods. Our gods now are technological. The cryptocurrency movement was more belief than tool. The AI panic is more belief than tool.

We are apes and we have always worshiped falsehoods but now the falsehoods we worship are unknowable artifacts of technology, Arthur C. Clarke was prescient when he said - "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

Re: Post-truth society is near

#27
97% of us always believe what we're told by the authorities of the hour. Moving in conformity with the hive like a pebble embedded in a glacier. Evidence, recorded or otherwise, makes no difference.

Re: Post-truth society is near

#28
post #5

Post truth society is already here. Disinformation has been on the rise the past couple of decades, and the results are clearly visible: conspiracy theories, election misinformation, and divisive politics where people's worldviews vary across their perception of reality. Photoshopping and lying your way to a narrative is now the norm in the age of social media. No doubt that AI will accelerate this, but to act like A…

Disinformation is a complete red-herring.

It's about presenting people with content that they want to believe. All sides are engaged in it.

The facts have never been either-or/black-or-white anyway.

It has always been more important to teach people to think for themselves, how to empathize with people who are different from you and have a grounded moral-center. I think if you find yourself completely agreeing with a major narrative in the media, you're probably missing one of the above three. Tribalism is cancer.

"Disinformation" is just a reframing of the narrative to pretend that only one side has all of the facts. The people shouting at you about how dangerous it is are the ones playing you.

Re: Post-truth society is near

#29
This essay equates "human-generated" with "truth." That doesn't match to my current experience online; more than half of what humans generate is already false.

What if it ultimately doesn't matter if the source is human or machine-generated?

Re: Post-truth society is near

#30

There is so much baseless hysteria about this subject. If society actually cared about this issue (spoiler, it doesn't), we already have all the required cryptographic tools (PKI, trusted timestamping, remote attestation) to create/record verifiably sourced content. Nobody really cares though. But people sure do like to whine about it.

There may be other reasons besides "they don't care". For instance, it's pretty dubious to say "they don't care" about the results of an election. But we still don't use encryption or really crypto at all for election results for reasons like logistics.

Logistics, and the hard constraint that we can collect the votes without being able to tie a distinct vote to a distinct individual. That last part puts some hard limits on what we can use for validation.
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