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Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

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Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#121

Post by lxgr »

nicoburns wrote: post #50
saghm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least here in Europe MasterCard and visa are the only options. Amex and Discovery are really unusable here Growing up, my parents had a Discover card (among others) and everywhere we went, I remember them asking if they took Discover because so many places didn't. It wasn't until years later when I saw the joke about this on Futurama that I realized this wasn't a unique experience: > Fry: Do you take Mastercard?…

Huh. I hadn't even heard of Discover.

It's the company that now owns Diners Club (and is better known under that name in many countries other than the US), who in turn invented credit cards way back :)

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#122

Post by maronato »

louloulou wrote: post #86
corkybeta wrote: post #80

cardholders Mastercard thinks will be “high-value”—predictions used to target certain people and encourage them to spend more money. Sorry, I don't understand, perhaps because I am in the UK not US. My bank issues my Mastercard, so I don't have a direct relationship with them. How would they target me?

You are using Mastercard's payment network whenever you pay for something. They see and record all your transactions. Mastercard is the entity informing your bank to pay the merchant's bank.

Yes, but how is Mastercard encouraging me to spend more? In my day to day, it matters little which payment network I use since that’s abstracted away by the bank’s interface. What opportunity does Mastercard have to target me?

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#123

Post by lxgr »

KirillPanov wrote: post #98
deergomoo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, some businesses, such as car rental companies, won't provide services to debit card holders. In America, yes. Not really a thing in Europe, at least not in any places I’ve been to.

I've always wondered about this. You drive off with a EUR30k car. What do they do if you don't come back? Drain your bank account of 500 Euros? What then? In the US, the rental agreements let them keep charging you the daily rental fee until the amount collected exceeds the value of the car.

Well, what do they do if you drive off with the car and they have your credit card?

Your issuer is only liable for the few hundreds of dollars that the rental car company has authorized; beyond that, it's still their (or their insurance's) loss.

The only practical difference is that you're not out that money on your checking account for a few days, which can indeed be inconvenient – but arguably that's not really the rental car agency's problem?

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#124

Post by lxgr »

anotherhue wrote: post #24
reactordev wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You start an EU competing service with the top EU banks and money lenders. You build a bunch of credit card infrastructure. You tie your infrastructure to the merchant systems and get gateways to implement your protocol. Not exactly easy but it’s not impossible. An app based system could probably do it and force ApplePay and GooglePay to use it in those areas. They will if it’s in place.

It has been tried * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_(debit_card) * https://www.reuters.com/technology/europes-planned-rival-vis... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocard_(credit_card)

More importantly, both Visa Europe and Mastercard Europe used to be cooperatives owned by various European banks, largely independent from their parent organizations in the US.

The European banks just sold their stakes in the late 90s to the US parents, because they supposedly didn't see a future in that business model...

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#125

Post by lxgr »

fsckboy wrote: post #89
pasc1878 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eurocard and Access got merged into MasterCard So European cards worked but the owners ie banks wanted global ones.

Visa and Mastercard are umbrella organizations that at bottom work through banks; the card doesn't just say Visa or MC, it also has a bank on it, and the front part of the card number is a bank identifier. So, there's no reason that European banks can't also be part of the same network, and presumably they are.

European banks definitely issue Visa and Mastercard cards (and in many countries, there isn't even any local alternative for card payments).

But given the network effect, Visa and Mastercard have a lot of power over both issuing and acquiring banks. Issuers have at least a choice out of these two; acquirers just have to accept whatever their customer puts on the counter at payment time (or lose ~50% of their card-paying customers).

In other words, participation is (relatively) easy; getting some amount of control, let alone autonomy, is almost impossible – again due to the network effect.

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#126

Post by lxgr »

maronato wrote: post #122
louloulou wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are using Mastercard's payment network whenever you pay for something. They see and record all your transactions. Mastercard is the entity informing your bank to pay the merchant's bank.

Yes, but how is Mastercard encouraging me to spend more? In my day to day, it matters little which payment network I use since that’s abstracted away by the bank’s interface. What opportunity does Mastercard have to target me?

Presumably they could tell stores that you have your card on file with? (Only speculating; I have no idea if they or any other card network actually does that.)

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#128

Post by kibibyte »

PeterisP wrote: post #114
sys_64738 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Mastercard know what you actually bought? If got to Costcos then the CC bill says the whole amount, not individual items.

The merchant may pass on the line item information as well, whether they do so depends on what agreements or other motivation they have.

Yep, this is "level 3 data". Merchants or payments services often get lower interchange rates for providing this extra data

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#129

Post by lxgr »

phyzome wrote: post #73

Use cash more. I know you can't use it everywhere, and for everything, but -- for the sake of privacy, use cash when and where you can. The cashless economy is a surveillance economy, and if you care about privacy (for others, if not for yourself) then you should use cash whenever possible.

Unfortunately, using cash does not by itself create an alternative that can be used for remote/online payments too.

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#130

Post by wolverine876 »

quesera wrote: post #103
wolverine876 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are advantages to credit. For example, the money remains in your hands until you pay your credit card bill, so if there is a dispute, fraud, or overcharge, you don't have to fight and wait to get your money back. Also, some businesses, such as car rental companies, won't provide services to debit card holders. Also, it's a free [edit: zero-interest, not free] loan (if you pay credit card bills in full); you get…

> Also, some businesses, such as car rental companies, won't provide services to debit card holders. I think most debit cards, at least in the US, can also be authorized on the credit rails, and can therefore be used to rent cars. It's always worked for me.

How does that work? Do you tell them it's a credit card?
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