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Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

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Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#71

Post by e12e »

lylejantzi3rd wrote: post #65
e12e wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many jobs, if you can't tailor your CV to the job, and can't write half a page rationale - you probably can't collect, evaluate and summarize business and technical requirements - ie: you can't do the tricky part of software engineering. Sure, being fluent at the level of fizz-buzz in a relevant programming language is useful too - but honestly, that bar is lower. I realize that people that can't code their way ou…

> if you can't tailor your CV to the job, and can't write half a page rationale There's "can't" and there's "won't." Programmers in demand won't spend the time, which leaves you with programmers who are desperate enough for work to jump through your hoops (unless you're FAANG or a unicorn). You're effectively filtering your candidate pool down to people you don't want to hire. Round and round we go.

Sure. But isn't what both sides should be aiming for a no-bullshit dialog where company explain what they need help doing, applicant explains that they can, how they can help get that done?

At some point the candidate needs to invest some time on communication with the specific employer - why waste everyone's time synchronously in first first interview, when it's better for both to waste that time asynchronously?

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#72

Post by JohnFen »

abnercoimbre wrote: post #66
JohnFen wrote: post #33

We've had two positions open on my team for months. Filling them has been a struggle. There's no lack of applicants, but none of them have the needed kind/amount of experience. Pay isn't the issue. I think there's three reasons why this is the case: we need genuine senior-level people, web/internet stack technology experience isn't relevant, and there's a requirement to work in the office. I mention that second one b…

Your team could (genuinely) benefit from attending Handmade [0] next month. Specifically hosting a job booth [1] - which can be done physically or virtually. It's an indie conference for systems programmers (lots of assembly and C/C++ experts) and we have success stories of employers hiring people at Handmade. You'll notice some of last year's companies are even coming back this year. Full disclosure: I'm the organiz…

I'll definitely bring this up! Thanks!

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#73

Post by UncleOxidant »

JohnFen wrote: post #68
UncleOxidant wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like with a lot of languages this is true - it's pretty easy to pick up Python if you know Ruby (and vice-versa) for example. But with C++... there's just so much complexity now and still so many footguns. Hiring C++ devs familiar with modern C++ (C++11 and beyond) is probably not easy. I've done a good bit of C++ in the past (prior to C++11) and I've done a bit of modern C++, but when a job ad lists C++17+ I'…

> when a job ad lists C++17+ I'm really hesitant to apply. While I've actively worked in many languages, C++ has been the bulk of my experience. And I am the same way. I can certainly work with C++17+, but I have learned that I dislike it strongly enough that I don't consider such jobs at all.

I like some aspects of C++17+ - the addition of functional programming, for example. But the standard library is now huge (more huge than before). I follow a C++ programming substack that puts out a daily dose of modern C++ and tbh it's just overwhelming after a while - how is anyone supposed to remember all of that?

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#74

Post by JohnFen »

ozim wrote: post #53
towhom wrote: post #2

Seems like hiring has been broken forever. Even with the plethora of job sites like LinkedIn it doesn't seem any better. Someone who can come up with a better way of matching up candidates with hiring managers could do really well, but apparently the problem is quite hard since there's been a lot of attempts but not much success.

How are you going to stop people from lying? Job seekers exaggerate their experience and skills. Hiring managers exaggerate how great job is. It is a problem with no technical solution. Well you have leetcode to check tech proficiency but is leetcode grinding hire best hire for the company? There is also bunch of problems like, company itself doesn’t know what they want. Job seekers on the other hand not knowing what…

Hiring (on both sides of the desk) is and always has been hard, it's true. Both the company and the applicant are taking a risk when they make the hiring decision. I think that a lot of companies get more focused than is wise on reducing that risk, and they harm themselves because of it.

In the end, that risk can never be reduced to zero, so you have to accept a certain amount of bad hires/employers. There must be a level of risk where, in the big picture, the maximum benefit lies, and that's what should be aimed for rather than trying to accomplish the impossible at any cost.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#75

Post by culopatin »

andrewstuart wrote: post #39
linsomniac wrote: post #23

A couple weeks ago we put a advert out on Indeed and also listed it here on HN. Initially we didn't have any further qualifications beyond the job post, which did indeed go into details on the job and requesting a cover letter. After spending a couple days of 2-3 hours each on reviewing resumes that were "only ok", we started adding additional hoops for getting resumes in, and also tried to put in a gatekeeper to rea…

This need for a cover letter is essentially asking candidates to tell you how much they love the company and how much they want the job. Why is this important beyond making the company feel loved? As a job applicant I’m not going to invest a minute in your company until you’ve read my resume and expressed an interest. Theres hundreds of companies out there employing who want your time but give nothing back. I know ne…

They must be posting for a position that doesn’t get much traction. If you got 300 applicants like in more general roles, you can’t say someone will read 50 cover letters, no one has the time, and so sending cover letters for those is a waste of time.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#76

Post by culopatin »

JohnFen wrote: post #60
whynotmaybe wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What criteria are you looking for in a cover letter? I find the concept of cover letter completely disassociated of a candidate competency to do their job. I can spend 1h to write a cover letter with perfect structure, good intention and really speaking my vision of me in the company, this won't show that I can do a leetcode medium or that my clipper code is well structured.

Cover letters convey the non-technical aspects of an applicant that can give an indication of how well they'd fit into a team. Why did they apply to us, specifically? What about the position or company do they find interesting? What skills/hobbies/etc. do they have (or want to highlight) that indicates an interest in the nature of the work? That sort of thing. The resume/CV tells you the "what", the cover letter tell…

Applied to you specifically because I haven’t heard from the other ones yet and what you posted sounds like something I can do to get money to pay my dues to the rest of the society. I don’t know you very well off of your “about us” and the job posting to tell you any more than that. I don’t know if the manager I’ll be working with is going to make my day great or dreadful.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#77

Post by 1123581321 »

andrewstuart wrote: post #39
linsomniac wrote: post #23

A couple weeks ago we put a advert out on Indeed and also listed it here on HN. Initially we didn't have any further qualifications beyond the job post, which did indeed go into details on the job and requesting a cover letter. After spending a couple days of 2-3 hours each on reviewing resumes that were "only ok", we started adding additional hoops for getting resumes in, and also tried to put in a gatekeeper to rea…

This need for a cover letter is essentially asking candidates to tell you how much they love the company and how much they want the job. Why is this important beyond making the company feel loved? As a job applicant I’m not going to invest a minute in your company until you’ve read my resume and expressed an interest. Theres hundreds of companies out there employing who want your time but give nothing back. I know ne…

A cover letter is a place to put relevant information about you that doesn’t go on a resume.

If you received a notice that your resume had been read, they liked it, and they wanted a cover letter before an interview, would you submit one?

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#78

Post by sys_64738 »

1123581321 wrote: post #77
andrewstuart wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This need for a cover letter is essentially asking candidates to tell you how much they love the company and how much they want the job. Why is this important beyond making the company feel loved? As a job applicant I’m not going to invest a minute in your company until you’ve read my resume and expressed an interest. Theres hundreds of companies out there employing who want your time but give nothing back. I know ne…

A cover letter is a place to put relevant information about you that doesn’t go on a resume. If you received a notice that your resume had been read, they liked it, and they wanted a cover letter before an interview, would you submit one?

What information in a cover letter would be relevant? What type of dubiousness is the hiring company getting up to???

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#79

Post by sys_64738 »

cebert wrote: post #36
JohnFen wrote: post #33

We've had two positions open on my team for months. Filling them has been a struggle. There's no lack of applicants, but none of them have the needed kind/amount of experience. Pay isn't the issue. I think there's three reasons why this is the case: we need genuine senior-level people, web/internet stack technology experience isn't relevant, and there's a requirement to work in the office. I mention that second one b…

Is there a reason you don’t think a good Java/C# developer willing to learn couldn’t learn C/C++. Especially with LLMs, I feel like which language(s) a developer is currently comfortable with is less of an issue. I previously had no Python experience, but know how to code well in C# and JavaScript. Using a LLM, I was able to quickly get up to speed writing DevOps Python scripts because I understood basic programming…

It's because it's likely a HW embedded position so web language people don't have a grasp of the fundamentals and low level experience.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#80

Post by arcatech »

linsomniac wrote: post #23

A couple weeks ago we put a advert out on Indeed and also listed it here on HN. Initially we didn't have any further qualifications beyond the job post, which did indeed go into details on the job and requesting a cover letter. After spending a couple days of 2-3 hours each on reviewing resumes that were "only ok", we started adding additional hoops for getting resumes in, and also tried to put in a gatekeeper to rea…

> I've been very lucky, I've not had to apply for many jobs. But when I have, I always wrote a specific cover letter AND customized my resume to the job advert.

You're self selecting for people who happen to be as privileged as you are. Maybe that's what you want, but I'm not surprised it's been more difficult than you were expecting.

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