Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 182 posts

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#61

Post by e12e »

bilsbie wrote: post #29
linsomniac wrote: post #23

A couple weeks ago we put a advert out on Indeed and also listed it here on HN. Initially we didn't have any further qualifications beyond the job post, which did indeed go into details on the job and requesting a cover letter. After spending a couple days of 2-3 hours each on reviewing resumes that were "only ok", we started adding additional hoops for getting resumes in, and also tried to put in a gatekeeper to rea…

My boomer grandfather called and wants his cover letter back. Jk but why not ask for a five minute coding challenge instead of a cover letter. Eg decode this string and include it in the subject line.

In many jobs, if you can't tailor your CV to the job, and can't write half a page rationale - you probably can't collect, evaluate and summarize business and technical requirements - ie: you can't do the tricky part of software engineering.

Sure, being fluent at the level of fizz-buzz in a relevant programming language is useful too - but honestly, that bar is lower.

I realize that people that can't code their way out of a wet paper bag (mysteriously) apply for programming jobs, and there's a low-pass filter needed for that as well - but a coding challenge isn't a substitute to check for (written) communication skills and basic reasoning.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#62

Post by toomuchtodo »

beernet wrote: post #48
toomuchtodo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies thought they’d be able to get a discount on labor due to FAANG layoffs that mostly impacted non tech roles. There is no labor recession, so no discount to be found for senior talent, but companies are still tire kickers waiting for that undervalued unicorn to land in front of a hiring manager. Expectations take the elevator up and the stairs down. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/tech-layoff-draft/…

> FAANG layoffs that mostly impacted non tech roles. Source? My impression is the exact opposite.

My Linkedin feed was full of Google, Facebook, and Amazon non techs getting axed, I'll need to look through https://layoffs.fyi/ to see how accurate my statement is.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#63

Post by transcriptase »

linsomniac wrote: post #23

A couple weeks ago we put a advert out on Indeed and also listed it here on HN. Initially we didn't have any further qualifications beyond the job post, which did indeed go into details on the job and requesting a cover letter. After spending a couple days of 2-3 hours each on reviewing resumes that were "only ok", we started adding additional hoops for getting resumes in, and also tried to put in a gatekeeper to rea…

I can sit there and spend significant time per application elegantly explaining how the details I've already put in my resume are relevant to the job description, only to have it never reach a human because a poorly designed parser didn't find a keyword or ML gave it 1 point under a set score threshold.

Or a human could just read the resume.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#64

Post by Mountain_Skies »

throwaway38475 wrote: post #11
MattGaiser wrote: post #5

It wouldn’t surprise me if this is a question of credentials. I don’t know any experienced people with solid skills who also have degrees who have been having difficulty. I know one good one, but without a relevant degree who is struggling. I also know lots of boot camp/recent grads in iffy masters programs who aren’t getting anywhere. I am aware of a few hiring processes that are just inundated with people who don’t…

Degrees are as useless a metric as bootcamps in my experience. I've done so many interviews in which a 4.0 CS grad can't sort a list that a degree from even 'elite' institutions doesn't mean much.

Does the job you're hiring for actually require sorting a list? If Kroger wants to hire a new CEO, they're unlikely to require candidates to walk up to the cash register and ring up customers even if it's a very basic skill for the industry.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#65

Post by lylejantzi3rd »

e12e wrote: post #61
bilsbie wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My boomer grandfather called and wants his cover letter back. Jk but why not ask for a five minute coding challenge instead of a cover letter. Eg decode this string and include it in the subject line.

In many jobs, if you can't tailor your CV to the job, and can't write half a page rationale - you probably can't collect, evaluate and summarize business and technical requirements - ie: you can't do the tricky part of software engineering. Sure, being fluent at the level of fizz-buzz in a relevant programming language is useful too - but honestly, that bar is lower. I realize that people that can't code their way ou…

> if you can't tailor your CV to the job, and can't write half a page rationale

There's "can't" and there's "won't." Programmers in demand won't spend the time, which leaves you with programmers who are desperate enough for work to jump through your hoops (unless you're FAANG or a unicorn). You're effectively filtering your candidate pool down to people you don't want to hire. Round and round we go.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#66

Post by abnercoimbre »

JohnFen wrote: post #33

We've had two positions open on my team for months. Filling them has been a struggle. There's no lack of applicants, but none of them have the needed kind/amount of experience. Pay isn't the issue. I think there's three reasons why this is the case: we need genuine senior-level people, web/internet stack technology experience isn't relevant, and there's a requirement to work in the office. I mention that second one b…

Your team could (genuinely) benefit from attending Handmade [0] next month. Specifically hosting a job booth [1] - which can be done physically or virtually.

It's an indie conference for systems programmers (lots of assembly and C/C++ experts) and we have success stories of employers hiring people at Handmade. You'll notice some of last year's companies are even coming back this year.

Full disclosure: I'm the organizer.

[0] https://handmadecities.com/seattle

[1] https://handmadecities.com/jobs

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#67

Post by JohnFen »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #54
JohnFen wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No reason at all, and we don't rule out applicants because of language. But Java/etc programmers have a strong tendency to be specialized in a particular sort of programming that we don't do, and get very weak when they're not doing that. They need more training that we can afford in order to come up to speed. But we absolutely interview the ones who seem like they'd be able to come up to speed. The pickings seem a b…

What general geographic area are you in?

The Pacific Northwest.

Another aspect: we aren't a pure computer tech company. We manufacture industrial equipment that uses a lot of tech. So I know that it wouldn't even occur to a lot of devs to apply.

That's why one of the pieces of advice I give to devs looking for work is to not restrict yourself to the obvious software houses. All sorts of types of businesses hire devs, and lots of them are doing cutting-edge, very interesting work.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#68

Post by JohnFen »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #50
cebert wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a reason you don’t think a good Java/C# developer willing to learn couldn’t learn C/C++. Especially with LLMs, I feel like which language(s) a developer is currently comfortable with is less of an issue. I previously had no Python experience, but know how to code well in C# and JavaScript. Using a LLM, I was able to quickly get up to speed writing DevOps Python scripts because I understood basic programming…

I feel like with a lot of languages this is true - it's pretty easy to pick up Python if you know Ruby (and vice-versa) for example. But with C++... there's just so much complexity now and still so many footguns. Hiring C++ devs familiar with modern C++ (C++11 and beyond) is probably not easy. I've done a good bit of C++ in the past (prior to C++11) and I've done a bit of modern C++, but when a job ad lists C++17+ I'…

> when a job ad lists C++17+ I'm really hesitant to apply.

While I've actively worked in many languages, C++ has been the bulk of my experience. And I am the same way. I can certainly work with C++17+, but I have learned that I dislike it strongly enough that I don't consider such jobs at all.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#69

Post by schmookeeg »

wendyshu wrote: post #42

At my company we put engineers (instead of HR) in charge of job descriptions, resume review, and phone screens and saw a sharp increase in quality of candidates we interviewed.

Being an interviewing engineer on the hiring side of a recent round at our company -- my goodness, I forgot how bad HR could make the tech hiring process.

I personally referred two excellent colleagues from past gigs, and had HR waste 3 hours of their time before DQing them because they mismatched on a cultural index quiz of some sort. I was not notified. When I finally found out, I was super embarrassed, and it damaged my relationship with one of the two friends. Guess how many colleagues I will be referring to this company in the future?

Our best applicants seemed to take weeks to schedule first interviews with. By the time we got to them, they had secured other gigs.

Strangely, many of the mediocre and "you're kidding, right?" candidates were actually promoted to us by our HR crew, wasting our time. I assume because their calendar times were widely open and available to us.

We ended up hiring some decent people, but.. I like to think if there was some sort of Quality Score we could apply, our HR team's involvement cost us 30% on the quality of people we ultimately brought on.

I wish I understood why companies did this. Our CTO apparently did not want to "ruffle feathers" to push back on HR's process. My continued howls of frustration about the process and its ineptitude actually got ME reprimanded. Which sent me back to the "fine, they're good enough" mindset in my screenings. Which completes the cycle of mediocrity.

Sigh. It should be better than this.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#70

Post by JohnFen »

wendyshu wrote: post #42

At my company we put engineers (instead of HR) in charge of job descriptions, resume review, and phone screens and saw a sharp increase in quality of candidates we interviewed.

We do the same. We also have a sane application process (no long series of interviews, no leetcode, no crazy "competency tests", etc.) And the devs on the team that has the open position have the most influential say as to whether or not we make an offer.
Post reply on HN