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Scrollbars are becoming a problem

artemis.sh

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Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#831

Post by Sakos »

chefandy wrote: post #760
Sakos wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the designers at Apple who chose to hide those scroll bars probably thought more about scrolling more than every one of these commenters combined, and that was before they did formal usability studies. This blind appeal to authority shouldn't convince anyone.

If you've got an actual point to make instead of just poking at one little part of what I said, I'd respond.

That point is how you justify all your conjecture. Rethink what you wrote because all you're really doing is relying on anecdotes. I can literally say the opposite (I always use the scrollbar for scrolling and everybody I know does too) and we'd have made zero progress.

You haven't actually made an argument worth arguing about. It's devoid of value and it's not a productive addition to the conversation.

And don't bother wasting any more of my time. I don't care. You clearly have nothing to say.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#832

Post by layer8 »

petsfed wrote: post #735
layer8 wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, don’t buy those. There are enough suitable monitors on the market.

About 3 years ago, I actually did research about monitors before buying one, for the first time in my tech-using life (which started around 1990, as I recall). Up until that point, it was never a question of "what is the best monitor for my application?", but rather "what's the biggest, highest-resolution monitor in my (pitiful) price range, that Best Buy (or whoever) has on hand right now ?" That's pretty much the i…

It began for me 15 years or so ago when backlights started to make high-pitched noises and 16:10 monitors started to become less common. It’s been rough since for various reasons, but brightness not going low enough isn't something I've experienced as a widespread issue. SRGB mode is pretty dim at 120 cd/m², so monitors usually are able to go at least that low, and typically much lower.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#833

Post by dajt »

codalan wrote: post #135

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

Yep, this stuff is maddening.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#835

Post by tonyedgecombe »

fingerlocks wrote: post #744
JohnFen wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody likes Teams at Microsoft either Then why can't they make Teams not terrible?

I don’t know man. It’s a big company and far removed from my team. If I had to guess, probably because of too many Chefs in the kitchen

Don't worry, they are rewriting it in React. That is guaranteed to fix all the problems.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#836

Post by tonyedgecombe »

hulitu wrote: post #337
addicted wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> until roughly SP2 came out, which basically was an entirely new OS released as a service pack SP2 was fantastic. For me personally, Windows XP means XP SP2. Anything before that wasn’t worth using.

> For me personally, Windows XP means XP SP2. Anything before that wasn’t worth using. That is because Microsoft had its own versioning system: - RC was alpha quality. - Releases were betas. and then starting with SP2 one can talk about a released product. NT had 6 SPs, 2000 had 4, XP had 2. Even in Windows 11 they fixed things (taskbar) after release. This really tells a not so nice story about engineering and quali…

SP2 was largely about security issues. Before then XP was riddled with vulnerabilities.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#837

Post by tonyedgecombe »

JohnFen wrote: post #649
masklinn wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everything old is new again? I remember when people were deriding Windows XP for being "Fisher-Price" in appearance and preferring to run Windows 2000 because it was more stable That’s more of a truth universally acknowledged. XP was goofy then, it’s goofy now, and it was goofy at every instant between.

It may have looked goofy, but it was usable. I'll take ugly/goofy and usable over pretty and hard-to-use every single time.

You shouldn't need to make that trade off though. There is no rule that says a usable interface has to be ugly.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#838

Post by Cthulhu_ »

codalan wrote: post #135

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

The irony is that there's more available screen real estate now than there was in the 640x480 era of early graphic UIs.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#839

Post by kalikrates »

batiudrami wrote: post #276
EGreg wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it just me or is Discord super unintuitive? And Slack is becoming that way too. Telegram by contrast is a pleasure!

Discord’s interface is extremely busy but if you ever used IRC I think it’s fairly intuitive. It’s a much more complicated app than Telegram with a lot more functionality.

As a long-time IRC user who never had problems with various IRC clients, I find Discord's interface quite counter-intuitive.

First example that comes to my head: I click on a channel that I haven't visited for some time, the view focuses on old messages (from the last time I visited it) rather than on the newest ones (which is typically what I want). And going to the newest ones isn't even trivial, I don't know a way other than scrolling down all the way, which may be quite annoying if the channel is very active and there is a lot of material to scroll past.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#840

Post by flohofwoe »

Even though I hardly use scroll bars by grabbing them with the mouse cursor, I still want them around as visual hint what part of the page is currently shown (first thing I do on a new Mac is to enable scrollbars to be always visible).

In general, user interface shouldn't be designed against an "average user" because there is no such thing in the first place (for instance see: https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/when-u-s-air-force-disc...).

Let us configure this shit.

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