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Scrollbars are becoming a problem

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Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#641

Post by JohnFen »

Naracion wrote: post #608
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That title bar thing, good god damn. I have to concentrate my vision on the title bar to place my fucking cursor between non-outlined active sections just to grab that motherfucker and shove it over. It is entirely a user experience regression. There's no benefit gained, whatsoever, from moving content to the title bar. Easily moving a window by dragging the title bar was something that "just worked" for at least two…

Ironic, to some degree. I agree with the overall sentiment,but: > There's no benefit gained, whatsoever, from moving content to the title bar. But also: > Chesterton's Fence >>The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, 'I don't see the use of this; let us clear it away.' To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: 'If you don't see the use of it, I certainly won't let yo…

> By moving things to the title bar, you gain back some real estate that you can dedicate to this ever expanding set of other tools and content.

But the loss of the title bar causes actual pain and interferes with practical use. It's hard to imagine any tools/content that would be worth that loss.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#642

Post by Podgajski »

LeanderK wrote: post #549
Podgajski wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are talking UI we need to talk about Apple. The first thin I do on MacOS is turn on the scroll bars. Yes, MacOS Has them set as "Only Show When Scrolling" by default, which is probably the most ridiculous setting.

> Yes, MacOS Has them set as "Only Show When Scrolling" by default, which is probably the most ridiculous setting. I have used MacOS every day for 10 years and i've never, except in exceptional circumstances, used the scrollbar to scroll. I don't see anybody in my circle using it. They all have the "Only Show When Scrolling" setting on. I don't think this is ridiculous and I would enable the setting if turned off by…

The scroll bar, for me at. least, is also used to gauge how far along in a document I am. So its use is more than just for moving. If I have to find out here I am in a document by scrolling that just means extra effort on my part.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#643

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

agloe_dreams wrote: post #571
Podgajski wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are talking UI we need to talk about Apple. The first thin I do on MacOS is turn on the scroll bars. Yes, MacOS Has them set as "Only Show When Scrolling" by default, which is probably the most ridiculous setting.

I can, 100% say that I haven't used a scroll bar on the web in years. I do find the hidden scroll more aesthetically pleasing.

Most people could say the same thing about wheelchair ramps, another form of accessibility

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#644

Post by JohnFen »

tcfhgj wrote: post #382
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That title bar thing, good god damn. I have to concentrate my vision on the title bar to place my fucking cursor between non-outlined active sections just to grab that motherfucker and shove it over. It is entirely a user experience regression. There's no benefit gained, whatsoever, from moving content to the title bar. Easily moving a window by dragging the title bar was something that "just worked" for at least two…

> There's no benefit gained, whatsoever, from moving content to the title bar. There is: more space for content, e.g. websites while not removing directly accessible functionaly

If things are so tight in the layout that taking the title bar away is actually necessary, then the layout is already fundamentally bad.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#645

Post by JohnFen »

fingerlocks wrote: post #268
rayiner wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Morons” is the right word. I don’t like to gratuitously shit on people doing their jobs. But what the hell? I can’t move a window anymore without clicking around like an idiot to figure out what’s part of the title bar and what’s a button. Every time I start “New Teams,” it asks me if I want to go back to Old Teams. If I open a PDF in New Teams from the file browser, it’s not obvious how to close the PDF without los…

Oh wow I thought the New Teams menu was an internal dog food thing for Microsoft employees. I’m so sorry, it’s absolutely maddening. Nobody likes Teams at Microsoft either, and many hours a week are wasted complaining about it.

> Nobody likes Teams at Microsoft either

Then why can't they make Teams not terrible?

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#646

Post by awiejailwrj »

Pannoniae wrote: post #10

I have come to a funny realisation recently. It's not my eyesight which is becoming worse, it's the UIs which are becoming worse. The tiny scrollbars with laughable contrast are in no way accessible to anyone. I've recently switched to using KDE with the Oxygen theme and it's a joy to use without any eye strain. These scrollbars are absolutely pathetic, with no room for customisation. (good luck theming a locked-down…

My current favorite is the vanishing scrollbars that appear for two seconds after you start scrolling. Chrome is awful with this. When I'm trying to review a couple-thousand-line PR, Chrome stutters and freezes, and the scrollbar won't show up for several seconds and then it immediately vanishes as the UI catches up with the input. Or sometimes I click on the ephemeral scrollbar but my click doesn't register until after it's vanished again. It's infuriating.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#647

Post by JohnFen »

Auracle wrote: post #350
Varriount wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something that's always puzzled me - why is searching in Windows always so gosh darn slow? You'd think with an entire background service dedicated to file indexing, I'd be able to quickly find files in a directory tree with the word "foo" in their file name or contents, but even with a modern SSD it still takes at least a minute on any remotely populated directory.

It blows my mind that third party applications are better at search than the freaking OS.

And that it's not only been that way for a lot of years, but it's getting worse with time. It's utterly baffling to me.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#648

Post by JohnFen »

happymellon wrote: post #312
supportengineer wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After a few small tweaks, Windows 7 Professional was a cat. Purring in my lap cause it loves me.

> After a few small tweaks Hence why it was worse.

But at least you could tweak it to make it reasonable.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#649

Post by JohnFen »

masklinn wrote: post #291
lstamour wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything old is new again? I remember when people were deriding Windows XP for being "Fisher-Price" in appearance and preferring to run Windows 2000 because it was more stable (until roughly SP2 came out, which basically was an entirely new OS released as a service pack). Windows 7, which was Vista's equivalent to SP2 also has some fans. Heck, I'd even personally argue that Windows ME has some niceties not seen in…

> Everything old is new again? I remember when people were deriding Windows XP for being "Fisher-Price" in appearance and preferring to run Windows 2000 because it was more stable That’s more of a truth universally acknowledged. XP was goofy then, it’s goofy now, and it was goofy at every instant between.

It may have looked goofy, but it was usable. I'll take ugly/goofy and usable over pretty and hard-to-use every single time.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#650

Post by JohnFen »

arcanemachiner wrote: post #409
happymellon wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having boarders that are bigger than 1px would solve that problem. Anything else is a work around poor UX. The fact that decades later it is still an issue is really disappointing.

Agree to disagree I guess. I don't need a window border when I can drag/resize the window from anywhere in that window.

I do need window borders. A good interface would allow enough configuration that we both could have what we want.
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