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Scrollbars are becoming a problem

artemis.sh

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Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#423
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it just me or is Discord super unintuitive? And Slack is becoming that way too. Telegram by contrast is a pleasure!

slack hides their settings in absolutely awful places teams is constantly broken on linux discord's ACL system is... a mess. meanwhile IRC clients are brutalistic and painful to look at (or really any open source chat app) nobody (commercial or open source) has an incentive to make a truly intuitive app that doesn't screw the user or ignore their needs.

> Open Source

Eh, Qutecom, AMSN, Ekiga, Kopete... these looked fine and modern 15 years ago.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#424
post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To prevent a familiarity bias we should ask them the same question in 1995 with time machined screenshots of current MacOS downsampled to 640x480px.

A border of 1 pixel on a UHD display scalled for a display of 640x480 is 0 pixels. You can make the same exercise, trying to run for ex Windows in a virtual machine with a 640x480 screen.

Exactly, a current UI would be far from optimal on 30 years old hardware. Furthermore it would look alien, not in a good way, even if Windows 10 would probably feel old fashioned to us in 1995, because of the flat look that was forced when hardware was more limited in the 80s. It's almost a Windows 2 with a few more colors and less borders. Check this site for screenshots https://guidebookgallery.org/screenshots/win203

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Morons” is the right word. I don’t like to gratuitously shit on people doing their jobs. But what the hell? I can’t move a window anymore without clicking around like an idiot to figure out what’s part of the title bar and what’s a button. Every time I start “New Teams,” it asks me if I want to go back to Old Teams. If I open a PDF in New Teams from the file browser, it’s not obvious how to close the PDF without los…

That title bar thing, good god damn. I have to concentrate my vision on the title bar to place my fucking cursor between non-outlined active sections just to grab that motherfucker and shove it over. It is entirely a user experience regression. There's no benefit gained, whatsoever, from moving content to the title bar. Easily moving a window by dragging the title bar was something that "just worked" for at least two…

Alt-Space, 'M' is your friendly keyboard method to move a window around. After pressing those three keys, use the cursor keys to move the window around as you desire, and press the Enter key when you're happy with the window's new location or press the Esc key to cancel the move op.

Works really well when the window's title bar has been moved offscreen for some reason.

IBM's CUA for the win. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#427
Scrollbars are becoming indeed a problem, but what about struggling to find the right spot on a window corner/border to grab in order to resize it? Did they test how much of a hassle can be to grab a two pixel wide area on a 13" screen laptop? I can understand they need real estate to be used for actual content, but seriously how hard would be to have a small "handle" that protrudes out of the closest window corner/border when the pointer is like less than 10 pixel away from that, and disappears after say 1 second that it moved away?

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#428

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

Resizable windows are an outdated concept, full-screen applications with tiling capability (think emacs) are much better. Add multiple workspaces just as they are today and it is perfect.

Unfortunately Windows and MacOS don't really support this kind of environment very well. Sure you can tile windows, but they are still windows. When you open an application it is not immediately tiled or opened in another workspace etc.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no benefit gained, whatsoever, from moving content to the title bar The one benefit I can see is to gain some extra vertical space on the skinny 16:9 screens, especially now that the task bar in windows 11 got thicker and can no longer be moved to a side. They, of course, still haven't gotten around to fixing the auto-hide behavior, so that's still not an option. The rare times I have to use windows, I use…

You can't actually use reason to understand modern UX/UI designers choices. I've just got Windows 11 at work. They've increased the blank space between all the items in the file exporer quite significantly. They clearly don't care about vertical space because I know have to scroll first in places I could click first before.

[flagged]

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#430

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

Resizable windows are an outdated concept, full-screen applications with tiling capability (think emacs) are much better. Add multiple workspaces just as they are today and it is perfect. Unfortunately Windows and MacOS don't really support this kind of environment very well. Sure you can tile windows, but they are still windows. When you open an application it is not immediately tiled or opened in another workspace…

Everybody says "floating windows are dead", but I fail to get sold on the tiling concept. For people working on 3 windows, that may be acceptable, but if one's juggling 10 windows on a couple of desktops, things get hairy fast.

Window resizing also helps a lot of things in terminal. Sometimes programs write log lines so long, I have to resize the terminal wider than the screen itself to make sure that every log is written in single line to be able debug things with some efficiency.

Also, not everyone uses GNOME. KDE has very nice features for floating windows like "dim inactive" which makes working with many windows a breeze, while effectively cutting eye strain, because your average screen brightness is lower, without turning down your lighting. Also, enabling window shadowing convincingly raises active windows over others, so brain's depth perception can isolate said window pretty easily.

Both ways (floating and tiling) have advantages over each other in some use cases. I use an hybrid approach (manual tiling of floating windows with snapping), but the scenarios I prefer tiling is really rare, I may say.

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