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Scrollbars are becoming a problem

artemis.sh

361–370 of 944 posts

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#361

Whenever I read a piece like this or another UX blog, it just becomes so obvious how little we care about a11y. “Good” (as in accessible) design is pretty boring and decluttered compared to most modern expectations of web apps. I read Adam Silver’s book on forms and came away realizing that we’re doing it entirely wrong from an a11y standpoint but that’s just not a priority.

[deleted]

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ironic thing about icons losing their color and detail is that it happened right as high DPI displays began to become commonplace in consumer hardware. We have these amazing screens with barely visible pixels and excellent color reproduction being wasted on rendering monochrome lines.

Forget Gtk or Qt, we may as well link against libXaw. It's a perfect match for the detail in "modern" UIs.

Xaw is much, much better. Colors are configurable, scrollbar width is configurable.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#363

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

“Morons” is the right word. I don’t like to gratuitously shit on people doing their jobs. But what the hell? I can’t move a window anymore without clicking around like an idiot to figure out what’s part of the title bar and what’s a button. Every time I start “New Teams,” it asks me if I want to go back to Old Teams. If I open a PDF in New Teams from the file browser, it’s not obvious how to close the PDF without los…

I agree. The distro I am using lets me move windows by holding down Meta/Super key and left mouse button - anywhere in the window. Firefox is an example of how terrible it can get, see this screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/zs2wekv.png. To move this window I can either click to the left of the Firefox icon (to the left in image) or between the arrow down and minimize to the right.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#364

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

> Applications like Postman, Teams (and pretty much all of MSFT's applications these days), Chrome, and Insomnia should be case studies on how to not design user interfaces. They are about as bad as desktop software gets.

Sadly Tunderbird devs drank their coolaid, as evident in the latest release.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#365
post #59

The author sees half the problem and offers the worse half of a solution. A scrollbar is not only a control, it's also an indicator . It shows where your viewport is relative to the bigger view, e.g. a long list. Hiding scrollbars, like some [redacted] GUIs like macOS do, is just acutely impolite, much like making buttons indistinguishable from text, or putting light grey text on a light grey background. A solution e…

> scroll wheels on a mouse But that breaks down if you have to scroll a very long way.

There are extensions for chrome and firefox[0] that can allow for continued scrolling by scroll wheel to exponentionally (as in, actually exponential) speed up. With this, I pretty much never use the scrollbar UI element as an input.

[0]: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chromium-wheel-smo..., https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/yass-we

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#366
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more, there's no attempt to structure information anymore. All the settings menus are a nightmare of lists upon lists and each app has a completely random layout for it's menu-ing, often with links to external sites, for what could be set locally. It is geniunely confusing to try and understand the designers intent. I can never tell if I missed a setting, or if it was never meant to exist in this menu at all. Th…

This was one of the biggest powers of Mac OS X, before Electron became big. Not many companies and people developed for Mac OS X, but the ones that did pretty strongly adhered to Apple’s design guidelines, partially because it just made dev live easier and partially because your application would stick out like a sore thumb if you didn’t. At least the global menu still lives on macOS. I’m sad Gnome 3 didn’t pilfer it…

Alas, Mac is one of the biggest offenders of crappy design and anti-usability.

When I first had to use one for work I thought it was buggy and defective and losing data. Turns out it was just hiding it because scrollbars were entirely hidden and disabled by default. They also hid a lot of other stuff. What kind of idiot created that design guideline?

Then there's the fact that the editing keys don't work at all consistently or correctly (and sometimes just don't work at all).

And nowadays they like to hide functionality behind obscure multi-finger touchpad gestures.

Their 'magic' mouse was a magic louse, that didn't work very well, ate batteries like they thought they were in a hotdog eating contest, and just randomly did stuff you didn't want based on where your finger happened to touch them.

I hope someday they hire a designer that has used a computer before and can upgrade their UI/UX standards to at least the Windows 95 level.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#367

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

I honestly don’t relate to anything you say. It’s like for every UI evolution you find everything that could theoretically go wrong, and say that it’s definitely a problem.

Like:

> Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window

What? When has that ever happened to anyone?

I use Postman and Chrome daily and I have no idea what you think is so unusable about them?

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am coming to the opinion that Windows XP was the maximum usable interface, and we should have stopped there [0]. But then, I might just be old and telling the kids to get off my lawn. [0] this is definitely true for Windows. All subsequent versions of Windows have had worse UX.

I thought Windows 7 was pretty good. Vista eliminated the Fisher Priceness of XP but added a whole bunch of glowing and reflective stuff, which Windows 7 toned down dramatically. I don’t remember if Win 7 still allowed you to have the classic start menu, but I do believe I was ok with what it did have.

There are more things than graphics : the ability to search the start menu was a huge improvement in Win7 (or was that Vista ?)

It's Windows 8 that wrecked things, by making the two-way correspondence between the start menu and a folder of icons basically void.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#369

My pet peeve is Azure Log Analytics. The query results window has a completely non-standard scrollbar setup, even compared to the rest of Azure. The default result set shows 100% useless columns, all of which have the same constant values repeated for each row. E.g.: "subcription id", "location", etc... The useful values are invariably off-to-the-right somewhere, so you have to scroll horizontally. Which you can. Wit…

All of azure’s a web UI is a disaster. Breadcrumbs that aren’t really breadcrumbs. “X” that sometimes means back and sometimes means several steps back. … and the browser back button sometimes does what you expect, and sometimes not. “X” stacked directly under one of the aforementioned “X”s, which means close, but the other “X” is back, all on a flat ui with the same background and no border. And yeah, the log analyt…

I still prefer it over AWS, which has separate portals for each product in each region. All of which show random internal identifiers instead of human-readable text. None of which support a folder structure, a technology invented before the advent of computers.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#370
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love not having window borders waste screen estate, and solve the grabbing issue by having the windows key + left mouse button bound to moving windows and windows key + right mouse button to resize. I can "grab" the window anywhere, with no need to hit borders or a title bar (which I also don't have...)

Is it as easy as that? Upvote assuming you were being sarcastic.

No, based on their keybindings it sounds like they use dwm, a window manager which you have to compile yourself, configure yourself in a .c source file, and comes without window decorations by default, I believe. It's neat but made for 0.1% of computer users at most.

Although I want to add the "Windows Key + Left/Right Mouse Button" bindings are incredibly convenient and should be supported by every OS by default imho. The area you have to hit with the mouse cursor to resize a window turns from "a few pixels in the window corner" to "the entire damn window no matter if there's a button or not".

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