Live data from Hacker News

Scrollbars are becoming a problem

artemis.sh

151–160 of 944 posts

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#151
post #140
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How old are you? I bet you a pound you're 40, or thereabouts. Trust me, your eyesight is becoming worse...

I got a downvote. OK, let's upgrade that to 2 pounds ;) (Of course, that was a lot of money when we were both young...)

I'd down vote you if I could see the damn tiny arrow.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#152
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

duuuuuude for real a11y? what kind of weird lingo flex is that?

It's a longstanding abbreviation for "accessibility", along the same lines of i18n being an abbreviation for internationalisation. There's the first letter, and the last letter, and between them a count of the number of letters elidded.

Yeah English needs another vocab grouping.

Greek, Latin and .

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#153

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

Doesn’t a heavy drop shadow solve the window border problem? Although these days those seem to be fading or disappearing as well.

Yes

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#154
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's blatant how UI designers don't give a damn about the users' needs, not even in FOSSland. Especially with this new "don't theme my app" movement. It's really unfortunate. The issues with CSS stylesheets in GTK should be solved with replacing CSS with a better way to describe styles, not with just throwing it all away and not letting the user set their own themes.

There's also the consideration that a decent style sheet can be ~100 - 200 lines long. Yet I see ~5000 line css files that have so much custom formatting for JS frameworks that build everything with divs, rather than using semantic HTML5 which has accessibility baked in.

It seems like there's two wildly different ways that CSS gets used. In one style, a CSS class is a semantic category of things on the page, and the style sheet defines how it looks. In the other, a CSS class has no semantic meaning, and the style sheet defines a list of options to choose from. It's the difference between `` and ``.

The first type of CSS can be written succinctly, but the second cannot.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#155

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

I love not having window borders waste screen estate, and solve the grabbing issue by having the windows key + left mouse button bound to moving windows and windows key + right mouse button to resize. I can "grab" the window anywhere, with no need to hit borders or a title bar (which I also don't have...)

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#156
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you find it hard to read?

I have astigmatism. Bright on dark renders with lens flares. On a computer I can just use light mode and it’s fine. Driving at night … I really hate bright lights on tall SUVs. Here’s an example of what it looks like (glasses help): https://beta-ctvnews-ca.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/beta.ctvnews....

Man, everyone hates bright lights on tall SUVs except their owners, who are blissfully unconcerned with the trail of migraines they leave in their wake.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#157
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a downvote. OK, let's upgrade that to 2 pounds ;) (Of course, that was a lot of money when we were both young...)

I'd down vote you if I could see the damn tiny arrow.

I gave you an upvote, so it cancels out.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#158

I actually love having a small scrollbar. On Firefox, I have it as a tiny sliver that only shows up when scrolling. :root{ scrollbar-width: thin; } And: user_pref("widget.non-native-theme.scrollbar.style", 3); user_pref("ui.scrollbarDisplayOnMouseMove", 0); in about:config You can have minimaps enabled in Emacs and Firefox, but I don't see a use for them, to be honest.

I also like the small and usually invisible scroll bars that the author is against, like the ones in MacOS. Though I only just realized that I can’t remember the last time I have used one to scroll the page - for me they always act as indicators.

The only scroll bar I ever use as a scroll bar is the one in VS Code, which I absolutely love. Displayed next to a miniature, much taller version of your document, with little bands for highlighted or searched for variables, that scroll bars is, in my opinion, peak design.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#159
post #8

Whenever I read a piece like this or another UX blog, it just becomes so obvious how little we care about a11y. “Good” (as in accessible) design is pretty boring and decluttered compared to most modern expectations of web apps. I read Adam Silver’s book on forms and came away realizing that we’re doing it entirely wrong from an a11y standpoint but that’s just not a priority.

I find it ironic that in order for your comment to be accessible the reader must lookup “a11y” to find that it means “accessibility”.

I would hope (read: pray) that on HN a11y isn't jargon. On a thread about scrollbars (i.e., UI and UX) a11y should be as accessible as saying UI or UX.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#160

Once again I have to give firefox credit for giving users the tools in about:config to disable this. It's cute fluff at best and annoying/abusive at worst. The browser's UI should more or less be fully off the table when it comes to what a website can change, and that includes scrollbars.

> The browser's UI should more or less be fully off the table when it comes to what a website can change, and that includes scrollbars.

I have a very strong recollection of adamantly defending IE6's ability to style scroll bars on forums in the early 2000s, whereas the Mozilla crowd at the time called it an abomination.

As an older man with both the power of hindsight and the weakness of failing sight, I can admit I was wrong. It's far too apt to abuse

Post reply on HN