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Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

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171–180 of 324 posts

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#171

My issue, as a driver, is that more and more pedestrians walk wherever and whenever they want with complete disregard for their environment. I’ve had to hit the brakes pretty hard on several occasions when I had “right of way” (right turn light, for example) and a pedestrian stepped off the curb with their face buried in their phone. I see the fines for jaywalking as a function to encourage safety rather than crimina…

That's the thing. If it weren't for the prioritization of auto traffic, crossing the street at arbitrary places and times would still be "sensible behavior". Everything you think you know about cities and the role of pedestrians is wrong -- a distortion introduced by auto companies to diminish walking and public transport and encourage automobile purchases. We are currently radically rethinking our cities and imagini…

> That's the thing. If it weren't for the prioritization of auto traffic, crossing the street at arbitrary places and times would still be "sensible behavior".

That's not really correct.

Even if all types of traffic (cars, pedestrians, bikes, etc) had the same priority you will often get much better flow for everyone and improved safety by requiring traffic streams going in different direction to cross to certain points, and in higher traffic areas requiring some kind of turn taking at crossings.

This is often even true when you've only got one type of traffic.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed that people who don't walk or bike usually don't have frame of reference of what cars are capable of, and usually don't understand all of the simultaneous requirements that must be fulfilled by pedestrians and cyclists. So you get drivers who don't understand that they need to look both ways even on a one way street, because someone might be using the sidewalk, drivers that don't pay attention to walk si…

I understand the reasoning behind wanting this to be some kind of David v Goliath story, but this is the real world. Cars don't stop as fast as feet. Everybody is a pedestrian sometimes but not everyone is a driver. You can say accountability belongs to one or the other but one is gonna walk away and one isn't. Personal responsibility should take precedent over right of way. You cannot regulate or control others, but…

An estimated $597 per U.S.household per year in general tax revenue dedicated to road construction and repair. That's a $597 donation from every non-driving household to every driving household, annually.

https://pirg.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Who-Pays-for-Roa...

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#173
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The typical way for pedestrians to cross a busy highway for example is via a bridge" I'm not sure where you're from, but I have seen very few of these. Usually the ones I've seen are over a very busy road with few to no intersections and a lot of foot traffic. These are beneficial to the flow of both car and foot traffic instead of using long cycle times. “beg buttons” I'm sorry, but that is some extreme spin. What…

> I'm not sure where you're from, but I have seen very few of these. Well I’m not sure where you’re from but I have seen tons of these pedestrian bridges :) wouldn’t it be better to inconvenience the car by building an overpass? The car has an engine and doesn’t get tired. On beg buttons: I did not invent the terminology. Look it up.

Where is that?

Source for your beg button claim? I've only seen that term used with a political spin. (And yes, I tried looking it up)

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've misunderstood the law you've quoted. It's not about "crossing without checking", it's about the pedestrian "yield[ing] the right of way to all vehicles". It's hard to imagine from a modern perspective, but until laws like this were passed roads were not, as today, universally perceived as places for cars to drive. In cities in much of the developing world the pre-jaywalking regime remains: road users w…

> where one car trying to go from point A to point C is effectively given total preference over all the people trying to live their lives (and cross the street) in B. That's a very simplistic view - it was never questionable and no one was "given preference". It was simply a practical decision in order to allow cars to use the road. The car took a few seconds to stop from even a pedestrians walking speed. The pedestr…

> It's a no-brainer that the party to yield should be the one who can yield.

Alternative no-brainer - the new entrant to street traffic that doesn't have the handling or control to safely co-habitate the street with existing users shouldn't be allowed onto streets. They should instead be restricted to specific and limited long distance routes that actually take advantage of their ability to travel many miles an hour on an artificial fuel source - with an allowance within streets to allow emergency vehicles of course.

In short, walk or take a tram to your parked car if you need to drive it to the next town.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#175
post #111
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The typical way for pedestrians to cross a busy highway for example is via a bridge" I'm not sure where you're from, but I have seen very few of these. Usually the ones I've seen are over a very busy road with few to no intersections and a lot of foot traffic. These are beneficial to the flow of both car and foot traffic instead of using long cycle times. “beg buttons” I'm sorry, but that is some extreme spin. What…

In the event of high foot and road traffic you could have A or B go 3D. The fact it’s pedestrians suggests they have a lower priority.

Or that the infrastructure is cheaper

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#176

My issue, as a driver, is that more and more pedestrians walk wherever and whenever they want with complete disregard for their environment. I’ve had to hit the brakes pretty hard on several occasions when I had “right of way” (right turn light, for example) and a pedestrian stepped off the curb with their face buried in their phone. I see the fines for jaywalking as a function to encourage safety rather than crimina…

Not from the us but I would not expect a car to have priority at a right turn.

He said it was at a right turn light. That suggests an intersection where there is a specific traffic light for controlling right turns.

Those are usually synchronized with the walk signals controlling the crosswalks that the right turns will cross, so that the car does not have a green at the same time the pedestrians have a walk signal.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#177
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Even the concept that the flow of traffic is more important than the pedestrian's flow" Is it? It seems like in the example, both parties are following a signal. Cars must yield to pedestrians in crosswalks. Sure, some places have jaywalking laws when not in a crosswalk (in some cases including implied/unmarked crosswalks), and most require impeding traffic as a component. A few places could move towards common sens…

The designs of most cities in the U.S. absolutely treat pedestrians as second class citizens compared to automobile traffic. I'm currently working on a project that demonstrates exactly this (among other things) in Dallas. It's both sad and amusing how true it is.

Is there any example? It seem a hard argument to make when pedestrians have the priority as soon as they step into the crosswalk.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More of a meta-comment, but somebody working with AI to upscale/enhance images/videos ought to take a crack at making that picture quality better. Would be fascinating to generate a reasonable audio track as well of what it would have sounded like, especially as cars/motors accelerate, people shout things, etc. Certainly not an easy task, but would be super cool

https://youtu.be/VO_1AdYRGW8?si=0q_u8ASJKn3YXGdd

Wow, thank you! That's amazing! Can't believe not only has it been done, but it was 3 years ago and was very popular!

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#179
post #97

Where I live in the US, people simply do not stop at pedestrian crosswalks. It doesn’t matter that there’s a large fluorescent sign, and bold white stripes on the road, and a person waiting to cross. I’ve even had a police officer drive straight through while I was waiting to cross. But it seems like they’re respected if you install large flashing lights that the pedestrian can activate.

During my driver's license exam, the examiner scolded me for stopping for a pedestrian who was waiting to cross... (saying something essentially like "you might get read-ended")

This was in Switzerland, in the late 80s, and yes, drivers did not tend to stop for pedestrians waiting to cross.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#180
post #7

> A hundred years ago, if you were a pedestrian, crossing the street was simple: You walked across it. What about horses and carriages?

Death rates from horse accidents were comparable to death rates from auto accidents nowadays [1] [2].

[1] https://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/10/31/cars-and-horse...

[2] https://legallysociable.com/2012/09/07/figures-more-deaths-p...

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