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Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

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Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#121

Post by conor- »

jeremy_wiebe wrote: post #93

My issue, as a driver, is that more and more pedestrians walk wherever and whenever they want with complete disregard for their environment. I’ve had to hit the brakes pretty hard on several occasions when I had “right of way” (right turn light, for example) and a pedestrian stepped off the curb with their face buried in their phone. I see the fines for jaywalking as a function to encourage safety rather than crimina…

My issue, as a pedestrian, is that more and more drivers are driving with complete disregard for their environment. I've had to jump or run out of the way on several occasions when I had "right of way" (crosswalks or stop signs, for example) and drivers accelerate right through with their face buried in their phone.

This problem also exists when cycling on shared bike gutters where oblivious drivers veer out of their lane into the bike lane, roll through stop signs, or are just generally unaware that they're sharing the road with people not surrounded by 1 ton of steel.

A pedestrian stepping into the street isn't going to kill other people with their negligence - the burden of caution should not be placed onto them.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#122

Post by mcbutterbunz »

Vinnl wrote: post #116
jeremy_wiebe wrote: post #93

My issue, as a driver, is that more and more pedestrians walk wherever and whenever they want with complete disregard for their environment. I’ve had to hit the brakes pretty hard on several occasions when I had “right of way” (right turn light, for example) and a pedestrian stepped off the curb with their face buried in their phone. I see the fines for jaywalking as a function to encourage safety rather than crimina…

Then again, the only reason that that's particularly dangerous is because of the car. Such behaviour in front of a bike, for example, would ve annoying but not really dangerous.

It would be more dangerous for the cyclist.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#123

Post by input_sh »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #48
csswizardry wrote: post #20

As a Brit, ‘jaywalking’ is so alien to me. I once jaywalked in front of a police car who stopped and waved/signalled me across the road! Whenever I’m overseas, crossing anywhere when the road is clear is second nature to me and I have to remind myself not to. Conversely, you can always spot a foreigner in the UK: they’re the ones waiting for the signal at a deserted crossing at 2am.

There are not many countries in Europe that have jaywalking laws. Only Germany and Poland come to mind.

I'd say the most common rule across Europe would be "you can cross anywhere as long as you're not within X meters of a crosswalk". As in if there is one within your line of sight, it's there for a reason and you should use it. If there isn't one, cross away.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#124

Post by switch007 »

alexfoo wrote: post #109
jcpst wrote: post #97

Where I live in the US, people simply do not stop at pedestrian crosswalks. It doesn’t matter that there’s a large fluorescent sign, and bold white stripes on the road, and a person waiting to cross. I’ve even had a police officer drive straight through while I was waiting to cross. But it seems like they’re respected if you install large flashing lights that the pedestrian can activate.

In the UK the law is sufficiently vague. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/2400/part/I/crosshe... “ Precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings 25.—(1) Every pedestrian, if he is on the carriageway within the limits of a Zebra crossing, which is not for the time being controlled by a constable in uniform or traffic warden, before any part of a vehicle has entered those limits, shall have precede…

Right

But the Highway Code says drivers MUST stop if the pedestrian is /on/ the crossing:

> you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing

This should be sufficient to make drivers understand that you give way to pedestrians at zebra crossings

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#125

Post by randomname11 »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #81
giantg2 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Even the concept that the flow of traffic is more important than the pedestrian's flow" Is it? It seems like in the example, both parties are following a signal. Cars must yield to pedestrians in crosswalks. Sure, some places have jaywalking laws when not in a crosswalk (in some cases including implied/unmarked crosswalks), and most require impeding traffic as a component. A few places could move towards common sens…

Look at the amount of road space, infrastructure, resources devoted to cars vs. pedestrians. The typical way for pedestrians to cross a busy highway for example is via a bridge - the pedestrian has to put up with going up and down the stairs. Pedestrians typically have to go out of their way to cross streets even at level. Traffic lights have “beg buttons” for pedestrians to use, god forbid they interrupt the flow of…

Not to mention speed limits. Around here almost all traffic exceeds the speed limit, yet plenty of drivers still complain about pedestrians not adhering to the rules.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#126

Post by UtopiaPunk »

zelon88 wrote: post #105
giantrobot wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In other words, people with driving experience are usually safer, more considerate as pedestrians. A great example of this is pedestrians in San Francisco. I've never seen more entitled oblivious assholes that pedestrians there. They seem to have no situational awareness and blithely jump out in front of cars. One of my favorite stupid pedestrian tricks is them jumping out from between parked cars crossing without…

Cambridge/Boston is the same. Another one that baffles me is seeing people ride E-bikes and scooters on streets with cars or worse, walk ways and trails where other motor vehicles are not allowed. These are not environmentally friendly alternatives. They are Chinesium E-waste with low quality batteries. They will be driven for one or two years then put in a closet and forgotten about. When they do get used they typic…

"Another one that baffles me is seeing people ride E-bikes and scooters on streets with cars or worse, walk ways and trails where other motor vehicles are not allowed."

Wait, where is the place e-bikes should be in your opinion, then?

At least where I live, the laws are quite clear which type of vehicles are allowed where. The laws here generally allow a pedal-assisted ebike to ride whereever a non-electric bicycle may ride. The pedal-assist is important.

So yeah, you probably can't ride your motorbike down a pedestrian path ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#127

Post by loloquwowndueo »

giantg2 wrote: post #87
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the amount of road space, infrastructure, resources devoted to cars vs. pedestrians. The typical way for pedestrians to cross a busy highway for example is via a bridge - the pedestrian has to put up with going up and down the stairs. Pedestrians typically have to go out of their way to cross streets even at level. Traffic lights have “beg buttons” for pedestrians to use, god forbid they interrupt the flow of…

"The typical way for pedestrians to cross a busy highway for example is via a bridge" I'm not sure where you're from, but I have seen very few of these. Usually the ones I've seen are over a very busy road with few to no intersections and a lot of foot traffic. These are beneficial to the flow of both car and foot traffic instead of using long cycle times. “beg buttons” I'm sorry, but that is some extreme spin. What…

> I'm not sure where you're from, but I have seen very few of these.

Well I’m not sure where you’re from but I have seen tons of these pedestrian bridges :) wouldn’t it be better to inconvenience the car by building an overpass? The car has an engine and doesn’t get tired.

On beg buttons: I did not invent the terminology. Look it up.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#128

Post by wongarsu »

trothamel wrote: post #79

Note that like most laws, Jaywalking laws tend to make more sense when you read them. Here's the law in New York: https://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/2015/vat/title-7/artic... 1152. Crossing at other than crosswalks. (a) Every pedestrian crossing a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right of way to all vehicles upon the roadwa…

The Wyoming law seems to implicitly assume that a) intersections are spaced close to each other and b) each intersection with traffic lights also has pedestrian crossings.

I assume b) is simply enforced by some regulation, but a) sounds like it could lead to lots of unintended problems. What if there's miles between two adjacent intersections? A person standing in the middle would have to know if by chance both the intersection to their left and right have a traffic light, and then walk to the closest one if that's the case (or find a marked crosswalk).

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#129

Post by peoplefromibiza »

Vinnl wrote: post #116
jeremy_wiebe wrote: post #93

My issue, as a driver, is that more and more pedestrians walk wherever and whenever they want with complete disregard for their environment. I’ve had to hit the brakes pretty hard on several occasions when I had “right of way” (right turn light, for example) and a pedestrian stepped off the curb with their face buried in their phone. I see the fines for jaywalking as a function to encourage safety rather than crimina…

Then again, the only reason that that's particularly dangerous is because of the car. Such behaviour in front of a bike, for example, would ve annoying but not really dangerous.

bike brakes are usually pretty terrible though

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#130

Post by joeman1000 »

jeremy_wiebe wrote: post #93

My issue, as a driver, is that more and more pedestrians walk wherever and whenever they want with complete disregard for their environment. I’ve had to hit the brakes pretty hard on several occasions when I had “right of way” (right turn light, for example) and a pedestrian stepped off the curb with their face buried in their phone. I see the fines for jaywalking as a function to encourage safety rather than crimina…

The difference is that you’re cocooned in a tonne of steel, hurtling along at speeds which kill pedestrians. The onus is on both parties to be vigilant, but it’s more on you as a driver. As soon as you get over this entitled view, like the road is your own little go-kart track, it’s so much easier to drive safely. I used to hold the same view until I started walking regularly and could understand how much the game is tipped towards cars. Their environment is unescapable and every time you interact with a road as a ped. there’s a huge chance you might die. There’s nearly no chance you’ll die by hitting a pedestrian as you drive. Just drive slower and pay more attention. It’s just not that bloody hard at all.
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