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A suicide crisis among veterinarians

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Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#421
post #274
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be there. I have had a cat die unexpectedly (heart failure) and she was in the car on the way to the vet when she died. She held on in the back seat until I was able to pull over and be with her. She was looking for me. You owe it to be there.

Ok I will definitely do it then. How long did it take to not feel just truly awful? Like I said... Ive never experienced that much grief/pain from loss before. I am scared how bad it will be, or what to expect.

You will feel awful, it's normal. It sucks a lot. And it's part of loving someone or something that much. I've done it 3 times now.

First time, it was probably a week or two before I stopped getting choked up or crying when I'd come around a corner expecting to see the dog, or hear the jingle of tags and it was just empty space. It was probably a month or so before it started feeling "normal" again, and we had a second dog at the time. She had lived 17 years, and when it was time she was barely able to stand or lay down properly. I still had doubts about whether I was doing the right thing, and even now almost 15 years later, I still feel guilty about the times leading up to then when I lost patience with her and her getting old. That experience was also the one that felt the strangest. Our vet had us do all the paperwork and payments up front so we weren't dealing with it after. It's a very strange feeling knowing you're paying someone money to kill your pet. I held her, told her how good of a girl she was and pet her the entire time. It hurt. We stayed for probably 20 minutes, but at a certain point you know they're just not there anymore and in a weird way you start feeling silly talking to and crying to a thing that isn't your pet anymore.

The second was the worst by far. She'd been steadily getting more aggressive for no reason we could understand for a few years. Our life circumstances at the time didn't really let us devote the time or money it would have taken to correct the problem. Looking back now, we should have given her up to someone or someplace that could do better than we could. One day, she just hauled off and maimed our other dog. In the middle of dealing with getting that dog surgery to preserve what limbs we could, I spent a terrible 2 weeks calling every rescue, shelter and option I could think of to try and find a home for her so we wouldn't have to put her down. In the end, we got nowhere, and we couldn't keep her and take the risk again. She was only 4 years old. It broke me for a solid month and was possibly the second worst thing I've ever had to go through in my life. She was terrified, confused and didn't deserve it and there was nothing we could do different. It's been about 6 years now, and I still sometimes have nightmares about her. About failing her and having to put her down. I can still see and hear her confused cries when it happened. It still hurts, but in this case it's less the loss and more everything that happened around it.

My last one was just this year. He'd survived being mauled by the previous dog, and went on to live to an incredible 17 years, despite losing a leg to that attack at the ripe old age of 11. We'd known it was coming for a while. About 3 years before hand the vet started getting concerned about his kidneys. He wouldn't eat the special diet so the vet figured it was better to just feed him what he would eat and let things run their course. No point in starving him early just to save some kidney function after all. On the day of, I left for work and he was happy and healthy and energetic. I came home and he would not leave me alone until I acknowledged his presence, which was unusual for him. He then went to lay down and refused to move or eat after that. We took him in to the vet and despite having just been to the bathroom 3 times in the last hour or so, he peed about a gallon all over the floor. The vet confirmed what we already suspected, that his kidneys were finally giving up. We weren't ready, but you never really are. Again just sat with him, petting, telling him how good he was. How much we would miss him. Thanking him for his loyalty. It took easily a month again before it started to feel at all normal to not have him around. It's been 6 months. I still miss him a lot. Like all of them, it's a dull ache now mostly. And even though I knew that I made the right decision, there are still days I doubt myself. Where the voice in the back of my head tries to convince me that he wasn't that bad and we should have paid for more testing and some meds and we killed him for nothing because he was fine that morning. But it was the right thing.

It doesn't get easier, but of all the doubts, regrets and nightmares I've had none of them have ever been about being there. All 3 of those dogs were absolutely devoted to us and there through so much hardship. The least I could do at the end was make sure I was there for them, and despite how hard it was I don't regret it for a moment. Being there helped me to. It's hard enough walking into a place with your pet, and walking out without them. I can't imagine how I would deal with walking in and turning them over and then just walking away.

You should think now (and maybe look at) what sort of options for the end care are available from your vet. Ours takes the body afterwards, and you have different options, the cheapest being a group cremation where you get nothing back. Then at least the company our vet uses offers individual services, ranging from just getting a paw or nose print casting back to getting ashes back. It helps to know ahead of time what your options are and what you want to do so you're not trying to decide on what will be a very hard day.

I don't think anyone can prepare you for it. I don't think you're ever going to be ready. It will be normal to hurt in ways you've never thought you could hurt. It will be normal to feel silly about hurting so much over an animal. It will feel like it will never be normal again. Then it will feel guilty when it does start to feel normal. In time, the pain comes in smaller and less frequent waves. Your memories will be dominated by the rest of the time you had with them, and not the worst day. You will inevitably be given a copy of "The Rainbow Bridge". It's schmaltzy and beautiful at the same time, and may or may not be comforting. If nothing else there's comfort in knowing it's something of a ritual to get it, and it reminds you that you are just one of a long line of people who have been brought to some of the highest of highs and the lowest of lows by a ridiculous 4 (or fewer) legged companion.

It is ok to be scared. It is ok to hurt. You won't want to do it, but at least for me I can't imagine not being there, and in the end I don't think you'll regret being there. It will suck a lot at first, and less as time goes on. Whether it's worth going through again is up to you of course, but it's probably worth thinking on the fact that every pet owner before you has done it, and most of them probably went on to own many more pets. I think there's something hopeful and positive in that. Good luck, I'm sorry for what's coming, and I hope the pain fades quickly for you so that you can remember the good times sooner.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#422
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favorite cats has a bad tumor and a 3 month expected life span. I found out a few days ago. I’m shattered and the thought of having to be in the room or not is just super depressing. I’ve never lost a pet before or even someone very close to me. I’m scared for how bad it’s going to hurt Part of me (most of me) wants to be there to feel the pain in the deepest way and not bitch out. To be there for the last…

Be there. My family recently had to put down one of my family's beagles who had been with us for 15 years. She was blind, could barely walk, and was having trouble keeping food down, and we decided it was time for her to go to prevent her from suffering. My father, my sister, and I were in the room all together when the vet put her to sleep, and me and my sister held her until she stopped breathing altogether. It hur…

Absolutely, this.

Being that human companion that's there with them to the end is terrible, and I wouldn't do without it. I've done it a few times now over the years, and see it as part of the price I pay for all they give me through our time together.

As a contrast, I was something like 13 when my mom took our dog in for euthanasia, without telling us kids that it was happening. They thought they were sparing us some pain, but I found it devastating. Getting home from school, "where's Buddy?" "Um...."

No, be there. It's always better in the end.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#424
post #116

We can talk about other negative aspects of being a vet, but the primary factor is that they know how: > But that reality of the job can also colour the way veterinarians view human lives – including their own – and for those already experiencing suicidal ideation, it can provide a simple justification: death is preferable to suffering. In a 2021 survey by pharmaceutical company Merck, 12.5% of the veterinarians surv…

I was lucky enough to own a house next to the vet clinic that ended up being my first dogs final veterinarian. Her sickness was very gradual; a boil grew on her neck and started aspirating blood, she became anemic, and somewhat lethargic. I supplemented her diet as the vet walked me through everything I could possibly do and was willing to afford. She gave me her number to text when weird things happened with the cav…

[deleted]

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, well if someone can't swing $200 they probably shouldn't own a pet.

That's an extremely easy thing to say from a place of privilege, and of course there is some truth to it. On the other hand, how many chronically broke and miserable people out there are only hanging on for love of a pet (perhaps the only consistent source of love and meaning in their adult or entire lives)? I'll bet its a lot. But fuck them, they're poor so I guess they should either tough it out alone or die. Sorry…

Anyone who has to say ‘from a place of priviledge’ over a comment like that is just being an asshole. Which is what you’re doing.

If you can’t afford to take basic care of a pet, don’t get one. Period.

Life is already harsh enough to not add more misery to it for someone else.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, well if someone can't swing $200 they probably shouldn't own a pet.

> Yeah, well if someone can't swing $200 they probably shouldn't own a pet. I'm not sure poor people not adopting pets would meaningfully change the rate at which pets are born. It just results in fewer pets being adopted. Particularly true if shelters fix pets before putting them up for adoption. Most animals that have been bred as pets over 1000s of years are no longer permitted to live without a human caretaker. I…

What gives you the impression these are adoptions?

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a million dollars a reasonable price? The point I make is that you might not be able to tell a reasonable price, per se. But you can generally tell an unreasonable price. It's some x-rays, animal quality anesthesia/meds, and labor. It's hard to see how this reasonably adds up to $10,000. Were time not an issue, they could probably take a trip to Mexico, get the operation done for maybe a few hundred dollars, and c…

> Is a million dollars a reasonable price? If you can’t find someone else to sell to you for less, then yes. Barring broken markets such as due to regulatory capture, etc. > The point I make is that you might not be able to tell a reasonable price, per se. >But you can generally tell an unreasonable price. These strike me as conflicting statements, otherwise I don’t know what per se means. https://news.ycombinator.co…

Markets can break not only on the supply side, but also on the demand side. When consumers become unaware or uninterested in the baseline cost of what they're purchasing (or in econobabble - when the price elasticity of demand approaches zero), you end up with grossly inefficient markets because companies lose any incentive to meaningfully compete on price.

The point of looking at 'raw materials' cost is that if the costs on top of said raw materials becomes more than the cost of doing business elsewhere (such as in a different country), then one would be wise to do just that. This is the whole reason things like medical tourism exists.

It's not like other countries are getting their machines, medicines, and so on for that much less. It's just they're able to reduce the cost of everything on top of raw materials to the point that one can afford to take a 'holiday' half way around the world, get their issue fixed, and make it back all for less, often vastly less, than it'd cost to do stateside.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#428
There is a number of policy solutions that the government can act on today that would directly help address this problem.

At the core of this is a crisis of animal welfare which is related to the spiking cost of housing and poor economic conditions.

No one has money for pet insurance and people are unable to move into apartments that allow pets, which results in abandoned animals and vets becoming animal executioners.

Some jurisdictions (Eg. Ontario) do not allow landlords to ban pets. More should do this. It would limit the explosion of feral and abandoned animals.

Finally vetcare is too expensive and we need subsidized public animal healthcare.

Another option would be to mandate pet insurance but I see a host of implementation problems with this.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#430
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked into pet insurance. The best cover I could find would have cost me £250/year, and would only cover up to £7500. It cost me £7000 for my cat to spend 2 days in "ICU", nothing surgical, though they did do a _cat scan_ and put him on oxygen. I found the cost of insurance ludicrous given how expensive the vet was and how little the insurance would cover. Granted ICU is expensive, I would still expect there to be…

250/year is not a lot. thats 20/month which is the cost of a netflix subscription these days.

No indeed, but the insurance caps out at £7000, which is not an amount I need to insure myself for.

Insurance must on average cost more than it pays out. When it comes to pets, there is less competition, less transparency on cover and less competition on veterinary costs.

All these factors combined make it unattractive to me, as I have enough income to self-insure beyond the low cover pet insurance provides.

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