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A suicide crisis among veterinarians

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Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#411

Post by michaelmrose »

FrankoDelMar wrote: post #145
pc86 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolute amount of money is irrelevant, it matters what percentage of a person's disposable income it is. $10k is nothing if you making half a million dollars a year and have $200k in credit with no balance, because your disposable income is probably $400-450k/yr. $200 is a ruinous amount of money if you make minimum wage and take the bus to work because your disposable income is very likely negative.

Yeah, well if someone can't swing $200 they probably shouldn't own a pet.

To be fair the price of education is limiting our supply of vets drastically to the point where every vet is booked to hell and back and can't see your animal on an emergency basis whereas the emergency vet is $500 to walk in the door and frequently $1000-$2500 wherein "emergency" is herein defined as something your animal needs to be seen this week for not next month.

Telling people you need to be middle class in America today to have a pet seems fairly inadequate.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#412

Post by michaelmrose »

yuhaj wrote: post #383
InSteady wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an extremely easy thing to say from a place of privilege, and of course there is some truth to it. On the other hand, how many chronically broke and miserable people out there are only hanging on for love of a pet (perhaps the only consistent source of love and meaning in their adult or entire lives)? I'll bet its a lot. But fuck them, they're poor so I guess they should either tough it out alone or die. Sorry…

Who are you proposing should carry the cost then? Society?

Well decades before people didn't graduate with hundreds of thousands in debt. If you follow that chain and look at the colleges which have been replacing highly paid professors with adjunct professors paid little more per hour than people who make french fries its not professors sucking up those costs. It looks more like trying hard to minimize money paid to professors while charging what the market will bear wherein the price the market will bear is inherently distorted by huge piles of government money available that people are in turned obliged to borrow in order to break into their desired profession.

As with everything else we are currently screwing up we could do well to look at what smarter countries are doing.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#413

Post by michaelmrose »

yuhaj wrote: post #381
FrankoDelMar wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, well if someone can't swing $200 they probably shouldn't own a pet.

Unclear to me why this is being downvoted. Caring for a pet has a cost. The obvious cost is its nutrition, but its health costs must be accounted for as well in the decision to acquire a pet. No matter if you pay a lot for the pet or get it for free, now you have full responsibility for this life. It lives in your captivity, so it's your responsibility to ensure it's being cared for. This is not nature, it can't just…

Perhaps it's downvoted because its facile and ill considered. Its locked into a tiny figure because the parent poster threw it out but in actuality vet emergencies are now mostly $1000-$2500 which exceeds what 57% of households can afford and pets can live 20 years.

https://fortune.com/recommends/banking/57-percent-of-america...

Ordinary responsible people are going to find themselves deciding what care they can provide for their pet both because of financial challenges personal and societal that weren't evident when they got the pet and because its getting expensive as fuck.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#414

Post by DoesntMatter22 »

rurp wrote: post #396
DoesntMatter22 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take care of a lot of feral cats and it's really tough. They die often, due to feline HIV or feline Lukemia. It sucks. 9 have died since January (3 were kittens). But it's just not practical to put them to sleep. The first one I did but it was 300 bucks. Idk it does suck.

Oof yeah, this is tough. I have done some fostering of kittens and on the whole I highly recommend it; it's a great way to have kittens in the home without committing to long term adoption, and it helps out shelters that really need the help. But this part of it is tough. Feline lukemia and other terminal illnesses are not uncommon with shelter cats and it sure hurts to lose them.

It's crazy how fast they go down hill. Go from like just fine to holocaust skinny in 2 months. Brutal to watch, especially hard when the kittens die or dissappear. I had 2 tabbies that were born this year. One had a white tipped tail and the other a black tipped. I loved them both but loved black tipped the most.

She would sit in my arms and purr just staring in my eyes. So cute. Then one day it got run over. Not much you can do really.

In a very weird and minor way it gave me insight into why losing a child during pregnancy or very young is so painful. I always thought "What's the big deal? You just have another one".

I mean I wouldn't say that to people but that's just how it seemed to me. But then with the cats some had great personalities or super soft coats and I was so looking forward to petting them and playing with them when they got older. Then they died and there is a bit of a hole.

Obviously this is nothing compared to a human life, but it made more sense now. You have a child and you think about their first day of school, how you will dress them, what their interests are, what special skills they have.

It gave me a lot more insight into what it's like to be a parent and lose a child and how devastating that probably is.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#415

Post by westpfelia »

FrankoDelMar wrote: post #145
pc86 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolute amount of money is irrelevant, it matters what percentage of a person's disposable income it is. $10k is nothing if you making half a million dollars a year and have $200k in credit with no balance, because your disposable income is probably $400-450k/yr. $200 is a ruinous amount of money if you make minimum wage and take the bus to work because your disposable income is very likely negative.

Yeah, well if someone can't swing $200 they probably shouldn't own a pet.

Most americans cant afford to miss one paycheck. Should most americans not own a pet?

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#416

Post by subharmonicon »

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #39

My wife is a vet. One big issue is that most people don’t have pet insurance. But they do have medical insurance. As a consequence they are completely surprised by the out-of-pocket costs of medical procedures. Hip surgery (to pick something at random) is hip surgery, even if it’s for a dog. It still costs thousands of dollars. But a significant portion of the population expects to pay what they would pay for insuran…

Just paid $30k for a variety of tests and a surgery for my dog.

I have insurance, but the yearly coverage limit is $5500.

Some insurance claims to have no limits, but then turns around and denies many claims.

I’m just glad I could afford the surgery and medications to keep my dog out of pain and help him have a few more happy years.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#418

Post by tpmoney »

makeitdouble wrote: post #190
freedomben wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have a crisis of homeless/stray animals out there. I can't imagine how much worse it would get if we only allowed the 1% of the population with $10,000 or more to spare in case the pet needs surgery to own pets. Also suicides will go up. Pets are an important source of companionship and oxytocin/closeness for people who live alone.

This is a good point. Perhaps the direction should be more about subsiding pet care cost and moving towards fonancial support as part of the humans' medical insurance ? Basically pet ownership would require either 10k on the side or registration and justification to get proper insurance.

Personally, like it has in the human medical world, I think pet insurance is increasing vet costs too. Used one clinic for years and they had reasonable (if slightly high due to being a 24 hour facility) costs. On year they suddenly start advertising pet insurance, and "for some reason" every service "covered" by the insurance went up in price.

Medical insurance distorts the market by disconnecting the payer from the costs. It will do the same in veterinary medicine if it hasn't already.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#419

Post by E39M5S62 »

Mezzie wrote: post #90
DangitBobby wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Any time we have a routine visit, e.g. shots and a checkup, it costs us about $300. I can't remember a single vet visit we had that was less than $100, and we haven't had an emergency visit in years. I have no idea how most people afford it, I assume they just don't take their pets to the vet.

Vet costs vary wildly across different regions. I just took my cat in for an emergency (little idiot ate plastic and we had to see if she had a block in her when she was continuing to vomit blood) and got her examined, a shot of anti-nausea medication, imaging of her gi tract, and some bland food to take home (which had to be special as she's allergic to chicken protein) for $215. I thought that was pretty damn reaso…

I just did the same with a dog maybe a week ago. It was a little over $600. I'm in the exurbs of Chicago.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#420

Post by anm89 »

westpfelia wrote: post #415
FrankoDelMar wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, well if someone can't swing $200 they probably shouldn't own a pet.

Most americans cant afford to miss one paycheck. Should most americans not own a pet?

You seem to think people are going to cower in fear at giving the socially unacceptable(to a specific kind of person) answer here.

Yes obviously people should not buy things they can't afford. If that means you can't have a pet or a 90k pickup truck, or the shoes you want or whatever then so be it.

Totally bizarre that you see this as some sort of gotcha to phrase it this way

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