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A suicide crisis among veterinarians

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Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#211

Post by rcarr »

fishyjoe wrote: post #180
rcarr wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complete horseshit. This isn't someone's funeral - it's a discussion forum. And even if it was a funeral, some people will crack jokes at them because that's how they cope. Do you think no-one told a joke at George Carlin's funeral? Do you think that soldiers don't crack jokes in the trenches because "it's not the appropriate place"? I'm absolutely fine with having my viewpoints criticised, what I'm not fine with is…

> five down votes in the space of a minute How did you even notice this? Get off the computer, it's clearly not doing your mental health any favors. You seem very unhinged. Ranting at groups due to perceived persecution and calling them "fucking militant" is not decent behavior. > Do you think no-one told a joke at George Carlin's funeral? The comedian? Yeah he's a comedian, I would expect jokes to be told at his fun…

How is it unhinged to post something on an active discussion site and then to refresh the page a minute or two later to see if anyone has replied? That's called having a conversation, there's nothing unhinged about it. There are no notifications on this site, if you want to have a conversation with someone you either refresh the page or you subscribe to the RSS feed of your comments.

All you're doing is trying to deflect away from my arguments and hoping you can frame me as being insane to try and position yourself as right by default. Because how could anything I say have any merit if I'm as "unhinged" as you have declared me to be, for commiting the cardinal sin of checking my messages? That is some dark, manipulative and abusive shit right there.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#212

Post by warner25 »

ryandrake wrote: post #57
chamakits wrote: post #25

When I was young, the first profession I said I wanted to be was a Vet. I was obsessed with it. I loved all animals, but dogs the most. Still do. Over the years of having my own pets at some point I realized I would be dealing with animals in their worst condition. Sick, injured, and suffering. I knew I would be bonding with animals I would rarely see and maybe even be responsible for putting them to sleep when the t…

> When I was young, the first profession I said I wanted to be was a Vet. I was obsessed with it. I loved all animals, but dogs the most. Same with my 10 year old. We had a nice "what do you want to be when you grow up" conversation in the car the other day and of course she decided she'd be a veterinarian because she loves animals. I don't want to be Mr. Negative Dad or discourage anything, but we had a "let's think…

I have four young girls who all talk about wanting to be veterinarians when they grow up. They're young enough that I don't put much stock in that yet. I already had some sense that being a veterinarian has a lot of downsides, but reading this thread is really making me hope that they change their own minds in a few years. Like you said, I don't want to be the one to discourage them.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#213

Post by alexashka »

candybar wrote: post #24

We can talk about other negative aspects of being a vet, but the primary factor is that they know how: > But that reality of the job can also colour the way veterinarians view human lives – including their own – and for those already experiencing suicidal ideation, it can provide a simple justification: death is preferable to suffering. In a 2021 survey by pharmaceutical company Merck, 12.5% of the veterinarians surv…

> What often stops otherwise suicidal folks is that it's not an easy thing to do

Assuming you are acting in good faith - please give this a minute of thought.

The link you provided giving the 5.4% number - did you fail to read on to see what happened afterwards? To 81.8% of them within one year, explained in the very same paragraph?

Do you see how that 81.8% figure undermines your argument?

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#214

Post by chasd00 »

johnla wrote: post #142
qohen wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those unfamiliar with Dorothy Parker[0] and/or that punchline, here's the poem, Resumé, that it's from[1]: Resumé By Dorothy Parker Razors pain you; Rivers are damp; Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp. Guns aren’t lawful; Nooses give; Gas smells awful; You might as well live. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Parker [1] https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44835/resume-56d22415...

Dark comedic thought: if a prerequisite to suicide is to get your affairs in order and leave behind a clean house, suicide would be very low; ugh, too lazy to clean. I'll just live instead.

Tangent: There’s a lot of societal pressure in A house being clean. Remember the line in Goonies from the mom, “boys, I really want the house clean when they tear it down”?

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#215

Post by KittenInABox »

ndriscoll wrote: post #195
neuronerdgirl wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally agree with the government that you should probably have an advanced degree before being allowed to cut into or administer drugs to a living creature.

Why? The effect of that is that it becomes too expensive to treat that living creature, so it gets euthanized instead. Or just let the creature suffer until it dies on its own.

I would rather euthpanize my dog than subject it to quack vets.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#216

Post by mozman »

Exuma wrote: post #207
heyoni wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the worst things about society right now is we don’t share the burden amongst ourselves. The dirty work so to speak is delegated to specialists and our hands stay completely clean. I’m not saying pet owners should euthanize their animals but staying there in the room while the vet did their work probably helped, and the article mentions that owners leaving is part of the problem.

One of my favorite cats has a bad tumor and a 3 month expected life span. I found out a few days ago. I’m shattered and the thought of having to be in the room or not is just super depressing. I’ve never lost a pet before or even someone very close to me. I’m scared for how bad it’s going to hurt Part of me (most of me) wants to be there to feel the pain in the deepest way and not bitch out. To be there for the last…

Never let your friend die alone.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#217

Post by rednerrus »

maxwell wrote: post #167
rednerrus wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could address each of these points and show how you've taken a narrow, specific stance to focus on the negative things in the world. I could point to hundreds of instances that show your view doesn't accurately represent the current state of the world or accurately place it in the context of history. It doesn't accurately account for the scale of historic cruelty, violence, famine, war, oppression, etc. Steven Pink…

Haha, yeah, I read the book too, no bland autogenerated pap with zero citations necessary. It clouded my worldview and made me complacent and content with my privilege in the early 2010s. The other usual citation here is Hans Rosling. Think any of the 50 million slaves have had the chance to read the erudite works of Steven Pinker? You haven't addressed any of my points, haven't pointed to a single instance of inaccu…

Here is what's being counted as slavery from your source: Forms of modern slavery include slavery by "ownership" ("chattel" slavery), government conscription (forced military service or government labor), forced prison labor, forced migrant labor, debt bondage (slavery until debts are paid), sexual slavery, forced marriage/child marriage, child labor, and forced begging. With the definition of modern slavery in mind, we can now move on to examining the statistics.

Your 13,000,000 slave number is only chattel slavery. You're comparing apples and oranges to better make your point.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#218

Post by nimih »

alexashka wrote: post #213
candybar wrote: post #24

We can talk about other negative aspects of being a vet, but the primary factor is that they know how: > But that reality of the job can also colour the way veterinarians view human lives – including their own – and for those already experiencing suicidal ideation, it can provide a simple justification: death is preferable to suffering. In a 2021 survey by pharmaceutical company Merck, 12.5% of the veterinarians surv…

> What often stops otherwise suicidal folks is that it's not an easy thing to do Assuming you are acting in good faith - please give this a minute of thought. The link you provided giving the 5.4% number - did you fail to read on to see what happened afterwards? To 81.8% of them within one year, explained in the very same paragraph? Do you see how that 81.8% figure undermines your argument?

The 81.8% is out of the 5.4%. (In fact, it is out of a subpopulation of the 5.4%--it is the rate at which, given that the person died by suicide, but survived the first attempt, died within the subsequent year).

From the study:

> During the study period, 81/1,490 enrollees (5.4%) died by suicide. Of the 81, 48 (59.3%) perished on index attempt; 27 of the surviving 33 index attempt survivors (81.8%) killed themselves within a year.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#220

Post by momojo »

Fomite wrote: post #29
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hoping someone will pay for a procedure to save their pet's life while being braced for "I guess we should put them down..." I'm sorry, but vet costs are completely out of whack with reality these days. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. The story quoted $10k to remove…

Also, as for "Once that cash cow is gone maybe vet school prices will come down to earth." - the source of the rising cost is a combination of two things, neither one of which has anything to do with small animal medicine: 1) The loss of industry support for large animal vets 2) The loss of state funding for veterinary schools, which has put pressure on the one remaining dial available to those schools, which is tuit…

What caused #1?
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