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Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

theguardian.com

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Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#201

Post by visres »

Nullabillity wrote: post #62
reisse wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not-interested in having a full Western-life experience (which necessitates having a car) American life experience, you mean? It's totally OK to live in Stockholm, as well as in many other cities in Europe, without a car. Besides, you make it sound like EVs are more expensive than ICE cars. They surely are, but the difference is not that much and subsidies cover a part of it.

> It's totally OK to live in Stockholm Not really. You can usually (sort of) take public transport to commute into the centre, but try to do anything else and the model falls apart quickly.

Interesting, can you elaborate? What part of the city or surrounds do you find this to be true? I've found the reliability and mix of routes via tunnelbana, pendeltåg, trams, buses, and boats to be really good and know many Stockholmers without cars. Of course, road trips and moving large items become more of a hassle without a car, but can often be worked around with rentals/delivery srevices. Further, the more remote you get, the density of public transport options do become sparse, if an option at all. But within the radius of the tunnelbana, living without a car is very achievable. [edit: saw your other comment about further out areas, late night journeys and MTR, which are fair points. Cars are super convenient in many ways, no argument there.]

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#202

Post by mikkelam »

throwaw33333434 wrote: post #117

I wonder why when Stockholm did it, it made the news, but, say Kraków did it we don't see it. City pays for PR?

Are you talking about the Low Emission Zone? That seems to be a reduction of high emission cars and not really a total ban as described in the article.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#204

Post by TheLoafOfBread »

oakesm9 wrote: post #162
eptcyka wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in some places around Europe, my quality of life is always increased by owning a motor vehicle. I do not use it daily, I do not commute with it, but there are trips which are far more practical with a personal motor vehicle than otherwise, like fetching people from an airport, taking a pet to a vet, driving further out for a hike, hauling groceries.

The solution to this is a car sharing programme. You pay your membership and get access to a fleet of cars and vans that you can pickup whenever you like. Tax, insurance, and petrol is all covered in the price (usually) and you can pick the right vehicle size for the trip you're making (no need to own a truck for the rare occasions you need to move large items). Obviously not a solution for every situation, but if yo…

Carsharing can be recommended only by somebody who never have to share a car.

- Car won't available when you need it.

- You will come to a car, which will have steering wheel and driver's seat in a setup incompatible with your physique, so you need to waste your time to set it back. Every. Damn. Time.

- Car will be dirty. All the time. Dog hair, food crumbs, trash (i.e. coffee cups, cans). You will take it out and next time it will be back

- If you are sharing with a smoker, I hope that you like smoky smell of your car.

- Car will be always empty (gas, battery) because previous user has no incentive to fill it up.

- Minor accidents will go unreported, and then you will be wondering, where this scratch came from, why is this mirror busted or why I need to hold my steering wheel 10 degrees to the left to drive straight.

- Everybody will try to evade maintenance fees - You want money for winter tires? I don't drive in winter man... 2 weeks later your co-owner will want to drive, because it is his car too!

Carsharing is a dead end and whoever will try it, will quickly revert back to his own car. Less headache.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#205

Post by [deleted] »

eptcyka wrote: post #88
CalRobert wrote: post #20

It's small, but it's a start. Next, remove as many cars as possible (some deliveries, taxis, and emergency vehicles make sense, as well as microcars for people who need them, of course). I'm appalled at the people here saying you need a car to lead a full life. A car-dependent life is an empty and sad one for many of us. I moved to the Netherlands with my family (two young daughters) and it has been _absolutely fanta…

Having lived in some places around Europe, my quality of life is always increased by owning a motor vehicle. I do not use it daily, I do not commute with it, but there are trips which are far more practical with a personal motor vehicle than otherwise, like fetching people from an airport, taking a pet to a vet, driving further out for a hike, hauling groceries.

[deleted]

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#206

Post by adrianN »

supriyo-biswas wrote: post #96
eptcyka wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in some places around Europe, my quality of life is always increased by owning a motor vehicle. I do not use it daily, I do not commute with it, but there are trips which are far more practical with a personal motor vehicle than otherwise, like fetching people from an airport, taking a pet to a vet, driving further out for a hike, hauling groceries.

Maybe some sort of distance-dependent taxation on cars may be a more viable option, so that people can enjoy private commutes when they absolutely need it, while still pushing people towards public transport.

If you add a ban on parking on public spaces and remove parking minimums for new construction that starts to make sense. Otherwise you'll still spend 10-20% of your city real estate on cars.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#207

Post by adrianN »

dingnuts wrote: post #116
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~50% of Americans are sedentary and obese. They're obviously going to want cars. Walking & cycling are not options (see sedentary).

There are also disabled and elderly people. Try walking and cycling to get your groceries with multiple sclerosis or a couple bad hips. Cars are awesome.

If you're physically unfit for an electric tricycle (or even a scooter without pedals...), I kinda don't want you drive a 2t+ vehicle at 50km/h or more.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#208

Post by adrianN »

robertlagrant wrote: post #50
jmrm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most kids know how to use the public transportation, and being ouside is safe enough to let your kids outside without needing to be with them. Also, some European countries do a really high effort to make their public schools so good that rich people study in the public centres.

> Most kids know how to use the public transportation Not kids from age 3-10, and from then on really just a simple one bus or tram route. There's no point pretending this isn't a big issue. You might say it's worth those people leaving the city to make it happen, but saying it's not life-changing for them is doing them a massive disservice.

I started taking the bus to school from first grade, as did most of my classmates. I'd usually meet a couple of them on the bus and we used to time to copy homework :)

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#209

Post by rumori »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #204
oakesm9 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution to this is a car sharing programme. You pay your membership and get access to a fleet of cars and vans that you can pickup whenever you like. Tax, insurance, and petrol is all covered in the price (usually) and you can pick the right vehicle size for the trip you're making (no need to own a truck for the rare occasions you need to move large items). Obviously not a solution for every situation, but if yo…

Carsharing can be recommended only by somebody who never have to share a car. - Car won't available when you need it. - You will come to a car, which will have steering wheel and driver's seat in a setup incompatible with your physique, so you need to waste your time to set it back. Every. Damn. Time. - Car will be dirty. All the time. Dog hair, food crumbs, trash (i.e. coffee cups, cans). You will take it out and ne…

I had nothing but good experiences with car sharing, great value for the money and I wish it was available in more places.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#210

Post by InitialLastName »

Tade0 wrote: post #200
philistine wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is absolutely great. A third of all short trips in the Netherlands are biked. To this North American, this is mental. What a great stat, that I trust the country to make even more impressive.

There's another, not great stat: https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2023/16/more-traffic-deaths-in...

That 757 traffic deaths in 2022, while tragic, makes it 4 deaths per 100K people in the Netherlands. For comparison, the NHTSA is estimating the US had 42,795 traffic deaths in 2022, which is 13 deaths per 100k people per year. Even a horrifically bad year in the Netherlands is dwarfed by the rate cars kill people in the US.

[0] https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-crash-death-est...

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